Asklemmy

I've just started having these conversations with my mom, because her mom just passed away at 99.

My mom isn't as temperamental as you're describing, but she doesn't like talking about death. However cleaning out her mom's old condo has forced her to think about it, and that's the lens of the conversations.

It's not going to be one conversation, btw. I think that's the key thing to understand: you're not trying to figure out how to talk to them about end of life planning one time, you're trying to figure out how to talk to them about full-life planning maturely from now on.

I would focus on specific issues rather then a broad concept; relate it to things that others are going through as a reference point; discuss it through the lens of ensuring a long, dignified life instead of about the end part; and try to offer appealing solutions rather than problems that they need to solve.

For instance, 'I was just talking to a friend who was visiting their dad, and he had a bad slip moving trash to the curb and is now thinking of moving into an retirement village. I've always imagined you guys living here forever, and I wanted to check if that's what you guys want to do too, and if there are any renovations you'd be interested in to make it more comfortable.'

The best time to talk about this stuff was years ago. The next best time is now.

Death & hospitalization don’t happen in a predictable manner for everyone. By avoiding the topic, some folks are:

1. Perpetuating the notion that the subject is “taboo” and therefore contributing to the creation of a wider culture that is uncomfortable with the subject.

2. Potentially signing up their loved ones to guess what they would have wanted while learning about and navigating fairly complex systems - all while they are probably experiencing grief

Highly recommend looking into the “Death Over Dinner” movement (https://deathoverdinner.org/) and book by Michael Hebb, as well as the Swedish practice of döstädning

Am I mistaken or are you the same person who asked if you were the asshole for not planning to attend your fathers funeral after being given an explicit invitation and request to attend because you might see people you don’t like?

If so, consider making amends before tricking your parents into a public place so you can ask them how they want to handle their deaths with a little less chance of your own discomfort.

If possible, enroll in a program of therapy. What you’re experiencing isn’t abnormal, but the way you’re responding to it definitely is. I want you to be healthy and have access to the resources you need during the experience of managing loved ones lives.

Do they have older siblings?

My parents suddenly awakened to this scenario when my aunt had an "episode"

It might help to frame it in a way that someone they respect might become too old

Good luck. Be gentle. They know they're aging and have likely talked about things between themselves. Old age doesn't really sneak up on you but it's hard to know what's right when. I feel guilty every day for not being more gentle and understanding with my mom.

How old are your folks?

Tell them to fill out an irrevocable trust that will explain all end of life care, POA, asset distributions and what to do with their remains. Makes things simpler and you don’t need to go in as deep

i was using qwen and somehow it offered a how-to guide about how to gently help a loved-one escape a cult. it seemed random but, the more i think about it.. it seems applicable to lots of life problems. idk what it says about society or humans. maybe just that stubborness and fixed-thinking is a common, difficult, and harmful problem in society.

My partner and I tried multiple times to talk about this stuff with her father. He always laughed it off or said he'd deal with it when it happens.

Well it's happening and he's not dealing with it. He has no longer got a licence, and just complains about it. Refuses to make a doctor appointment, because "how can I get there" nevermind people can drive him, taxis exist and stuff.

I’ve seen it go both ways.

Grandparents slipping horribly into dementia. Refused help. Kept getting scammed out of money, luckily they had a lot. Kept driving and we kept finding new dings in their car. Had to steal the car keys multiple times.

Finally all of their kids got together and got power of atty and got them set up in a nice care facility. They had to get moved to the memory care area not long after as they kept escaping. They thought they were on a cruise ship or something. Eventually they died but their kids had to do tons of work.

At the other end of the spectrum is this lady that basically set everything up since her mid 50’s. Found a retirement community she liked that had normal homes and then two properties with different stages of assisted living. She’s sent her kids all of the details including funeral arrangements.

She’s still kicking but I expect her passing will go a lot easier than the first couple I spoke of.

Get them to talk to a friend that lives in a retirement community and start taking tours every weekend.

This is very difficult. My mom was very straightforward with this and wanted everything worked out, a breeze, she took the initiative and is organizing. My wife’s parents are in the mode of “I’ll worry about this when I’m dead”. We’ve dropped some hints, especially since they had a medical emergency recently. But there is little more to do than offer help, information and ask what they want. If they’re not open to it, you’re just damaging the relationship and I’m not sure it’s worth it. There is no easy “win-win” scenario here.

Can you have this conversation slowly over time? Ask a few questions about their plans, maybe make a suggestion, mention other old parts who have handled planning in a mature way, and don't make a deal out of it if they don't want to take your ideas. I've found that sometimes you can plant an idea and people will warm up to those ideas and even decide it was their idea. Which is annoying, but gets the job done.

But yeah if you go into this expecting them to change a lifetime of emotional programming, you're gonna have a bad time.

This is a really difficult question because so much of it depends on your family dynamics plus a lot of legal stuff that I wouldn’t take internet advice on. It basically comes down to this: “do you want your wishes respected if, god forbid, you were in some way incapacitated.” And that now, while they’re still doing good, is the time to set it up. Really wish you the best on this.

Good luck!

As for biological parents, I have one that's very open to hearing the truth, pragmatic, accepting, understanding, and all those good things. And I have another that absolutely refused to have any kind of reasonable conversation about later-life / end-of-life matters, to the point where his only response was "if it gets to that point, take me out in the woods and shoot me."

Go figure it was the "if it gets to that point, take me out in the woods and shoot me" parent that most needed to have the conversation as he's beyond the point of having a cogent conversation now that he barely even recognizes who I am.

But it's the one that actually was willing to listen that is fully cared for and in a great spot in life in her old age.

Sometimes they choose their own poison and they choose poorly.

If you can find a way to bring in a neutral 3rd party to be the one suggesting things it should make it feel to them less like their kid telling them what to do.

You could try blaming AI and have AI suggest they do XYZ.

I know people hate AI but it makes a great mediator because usually people consider it a neutral party

Edit: not the same, but for younger people who might want to head off this situation, I used to teach financial literacy and made an assignment to watch this 5 minute video with their parents and ask them what their thoughts were about it. It was well received overall and primes your parents to think about how their financial decisions in old age will also effect their children.