Ask Lemmy

I'd say it's technically a lie: an intentional misleading. Paltering is its close cousin.

The intent matters. Did you omit something on purpose to serve your own agenda/narrative or did you omit something for some other reason.

If you’re omitting something to serve yourself it’s a lie.

Depends. Intentionally omitting information in order to mislead? That's a lie. Simply not mentioning something? Or not mentioning it because it's embarrassing for you or someone else, because you didn't think it was relevant, or because it's not their business or not your business to share? Not really a lie. Not in the same way anyway.

Disagree

All lies are deceptions, but not all deceptions are lies

Lies are specific acts that are done, not acting is in itself not an act

Conservation of energy cannot be called an expenditure of energy

When people call something a "lie by omission" it's an attempt to shift the blame wholly to the other person rather than deal with the fact that part of the blame belongs to themselves

My silence was not a lie; you guessed about reality, and I just didn't correct you

You can still use it as a basis for future distrust and you can still use it as a reason to cut off or minimize future encounters

But it is not and should not be considered a malicious action against you as you would a lie

A lie is based on intent. If you're purposely intending to mislead someone, whether by omitting information or by outright stating false information, then it's a lie.

It really depends on context.

yin-lies & yang-lies are on the same spectrum, but at different ends of it.

It isn't a binary/dichotomy.

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Disagree. It's deceptive, but not a lie. A lie is a deliberately false statement, which omission cannot be.

I wouldn't consider it in a vacuum. I also look at intent and consequences. Did they omit info to gain advantage over others, or were they refusing to tell a Nazi where they hid the jews? Did their choice lead to a better outcome for everyone, or did it cause chaos and disrupt lives needlessly?

Everyone going "duh it's still a lie" - calling someone a liar carries a specific connotation which I don't think applies in all cases of so-called "lies". To me, a lie carries with it not just an intentional falsehood but an accusation or an accusable misdeed. I wouldn't call someone a liar because they hid jews from nazis.

Omission can be a lie as long as the intent is to deceive. Thats an important element to making something a lie

If Jean-Luc Picard says it’s so, it’s so.

the crucial element of a lie is intention to decieve, either by ommission or commission

I think omission can be used for misleading/deception, but that it's distinct from a lie.

Reminds me of Wheel of Time

Something like "shall speak no word that which is not true" is one of the 3 oaths... but they can still deceive without technically lying...

If the person lying by omission has the intent of causing the recipient to have false understanding (e.g. to provide basis for a choice) then it's at least as dishonest as a blatant lie.

If they omit information because they think it's irrelevant then it's just ignorance or negligence. Dishonest in the sense that it's not forthright.

Neither lies nor omission are inherently unethical without some basis for the relation between the two people being honesty/loyalty.

I think it depends on the context. If it's like a close friend and the deception screws you over and was an unexpected betrayal, then it's basically a lie. If there's some reason someone might suck at a job and they don't mention it in the interview and were not asked, that's different because it's an adversarial situation and looking out for yourself means not showing all your cards, and everyone should understand that it's like that.

No, that would be deceit. Similar, but not the same. You can deceive someone by lying. Lying is an act of deceit.

The core of dishonesty is disrespect for others and the truth. That's the core issue. Focusing on the method of prevarication is academic.

If it's on purpose to deceive, I guess.

Yes.

And lie by suggestion and implication is also a lie.

Are you sure you’re not really asking if lying is good or bad? To me that’s an important distinction that should be addressed.

My kids used to believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy. I perpetuated those lies because it was fun for everyone, and the boys enjoyed it. Now they’re older and know better, and they understand both sides. They were not hurt or upset.

But if I know my friend’s wife is cheating on him, and I don’t say anything to him, then obviously that’s bad and my friend would be devastated even more to find out I withheld such important information.

We often conflate “not telling lies” with “all lies are bad”, and that’s not always true.

Yes, that's why it's called that

agree.

but context matters.

Not sure I'd call it a lie according to these definitions...

A lie is an assertion that is believed to be false

a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth

We don't need to call it a lie to ackowledge it still carries the same moral burden, judgement and implications.

I'd call it deception.

How about a lie of omission to myself?

No. Otherwise everyone lies constantly by not telling everyone everything they are aware of at all times. Granted I met some people that would be pretty honesty by that metric. And everyone wants to get away from them.