Games

And most of the characteristic features of the general archetype are there to make it easier or are these sorts of iterative experiments towards fixing long running mechanical problems in games. Like how the "limited, but endlessly refreshing heals" part was a very successful experiment on how to stop the "I'm saving these limited healing items for when I really need them" problem that RPGs have, giving both a constant pressure of resource scarcity but also the complete freedom to use those resources when you like since you literally can neither hoard them nor really run out. Also lots of checkpoints, making sure boss attacks have clear telegraphs and consistent timings (matched to the rhythm of their encounter music, too), trying to make hitboxes actually match the visuals instead of just being "there's a big damage box around the entire space the boss moves in" like a lot of games do, giving the players lots of iframes to just not get hit at will, giving the option to just have a 100 damage reduction block if they want that instead, etc.

Like the things that most define it as a genre are all these nice little ways the game accommodates and empowers the player, so that then the level and enemy designers can dial up the difficulty in ways that aren't just the traditional "so everything's a sponge that one shots you" way that most games create "difficulty". Most of the complaints people have with them are mostly just cases of the devs either doing a poor job of it or chasing a very specific niche of escalating things to build off an earlier work as just "thing, but more!", the equivalent of like those nightmarish Kaizo ROMhacks for old SNES games like Mario and Metroid.

Annoying soulslike fans also don’t respect the developers vision, or they wouldn’t get annoyed at people using summons / pyro / spells / shields / whatever tools the developers deliberately put in the game.

"Oh but it's not the developer's vision"

The funny thing is that a very similar issue arose with Pathologic 2. The developers initially didn't include difficulty settings because the intended experience was a difficult one where the player would struggle. When they received feedback that the game was too difficult for many players to even finish, though, they added easier difficulty modes on the grounds that they would rather players be able to complete the game on an easier difficulty than not at all. The game defaults to the hardest difficulty and describes it as the intended experience but it also says "But go ahead and play on a lower difficulty if that's what it takes you to finish the game."

The director's vision argument is only ever used one way. They always say it if a game is too hard for someone, but if it's deemed too easy by them they have no issue saying the game should be changed to accommodate their taste.

this I will always agree with 100%. I’m fine with a game that is hard but not everyone is like me and was lucky enough to be gifted with the hand eye coordination and motor skills that I take for granted. I’m reminded of that every fucking time I play a fromsoft game and end up having to install a mod for large type in the menus, because GOD FORBID someone want to play the game who has poor vision.

And then you get banned from online leaderboards because you had the gall to install a mod that made it so you could actually read context menus and shit. Fuck your vision. Your vision sucks if I can’t actually see it. And frankly I think the vast majority of devs don’t give a shit about adding such features; they’re not prioritized because of the cost:benefit analysis being lackluster. “spending $x dollars on dev time for $y dollars in additional sales, if the projection shows adding accessibility will generally lead to X>Y, why bother?” Kind of thing. But then the worst people ever, culture warrior /v/ trash, latch on to make excuses for the bean counters.

"Noooooo, you can't use cheat codes. That ruins the game dev's vision of the game."

Uh aktually, Freedom 0 states that a program installed on a user's PC ought to be run by the user as they wish for any purpose. Therefore, if the user wants to use cheat codes on their game, they should be allowed to do so.

Based and sigma pilled. Being in medschool truly made me appreciate any free time I have

I mean doing it fast is one kind of difficulty, I actually think some of the more frustrating ideas about what makes a game a satisfying experience is that difficulty is a monolith.

There's speed of execution, perfection of execution, study, memorisation, self exploration, exploitation of systems, persistence, reaction speeds, planning, strategy, tactics, coordination, parsing a game, pattern recognition, and of course many more and any permutation of any of these.

Chess is "difficult" but chess is (until an elite level) also just very easy and boring. Depends on who you ask and how they're approaching it? Do they seek to master the game without studying anyone else's play? Extremely difficult in some ways but no reaction speed required. Do they want to spend hours of their life drilling and studying? In some respects that easier but it demands extraordinary persistence and tolerance for tedium.

Is COD less difficult than chess? Depends on if you have arthritis I suspect.

At least personally I am never looking for a game that requires fast reactions or play but I adore games that require remaining calm in the face of challenge and not making any input mistakes at their highest levels. I also love games where you have to fill notebooks to solve them. Do I not like difficult games because I will never speed run?

Difficulty is so fuzzy that when it comes some way of ranking "real gamers" or whatever the conversation just devolves into calling each other names and erecting random goalposts.

Ironically, Hollow Knight was the first soulslike game I played and it made me realize I enjoyed a very difficult challenge from time to time, so immediately after playing it I started doing some Path of Exile 2 speedruns (never got good at it because the tech got changed in the last patch). Maybe your argument is correct but it doesn't necessarily work on everyone!

Honestly if these comps didn't make damn near every hack n slash like em I wouldn't have a prob. Instead you play a demi god who moves like he was born with rickets and has a bear trap on him and has to do these weird checkpoints And need stamina bars for basic movements Fair enough on its own but not every 2 games. How is this fun?

we need to trick them into becoming fighting game players. human opponents are infinitely more rewarding to learn and overcome

The most useful piece of advice i got for this game was here on sexbear someone told me to stop looking at the bosses healthbar and never take my eyes off the boss. After 3 failed attempts at playing that game i then breezed through to the end and didn’t even die against the final boss lol. In this instance its the only game i ever bothered to “gut gud” at but only because someone actually told me how to.

Silly as it sounds that's surprisingly good advice for Sekiro, working on the assumption someone's experienced with Dark Souls and the like. In the other games parrying is overpowered but incredibly janky and slow, so everyone learns to either block or iframe everything and only a few learn to parry the handful of things you can parry in those games. Sekiro on the hand relies on staring enemies down and blocking at the last possible instant instead, in a way that's very unintuitive if you're used to prioritizing iframing and positioning to just not get hit.

You can get through the early fights with just dodging and positioning, but that does hit a wall eventually where you do literally have to just start learning the game's core gimmick until you've internalized it the way you have to internalize iframe timing in the other games.

The biggest irony is that imo the best boss fight in the game is a more traditional soulslike fight with minimal parrying and lots of dodging and careful positioning. The parrying is a cool gimmick but I didn't really like the fights that were actually designed around it. Maybe the what was it called? Long-necked centipede or something? That was exactly the right length and amount of parrying for a fight, just a fast frantic burst of parrying everything like mad and then it was done.

Umm sorry my 5000 hours in paradox gaming obviously makes me qualified to join the war room

Mandem bragging about sinking thousands of hours into this shit, tens of hours on forums annoying people to impress other sweaty hogs "see I can be an annoying prick too". By the way they speak with such pomp they make it sound like they perform complex life saving surgery on the regular Or that one day the military will come to their doorstep to aid them in saving the world using gaming skills like that adam Sandler

The git gud crowd believes paying hard is to hone a skill but I have a very hard time believing playing video games is gaining a skill.

I think competitive games can teach you skills applicable real life but those skills are largely trained when competing in anything. when it comes to single player games you're largely correct in my view

And you can always go for Nightmare King Grimm too, that fight is pure gasoline and it's super challenging and worthwhile right from the start.

Uh, I do? I'm not sure what your point is. I haven't touched the game in months.