this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024
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Inspired by this dorky exchange I had, thank u BountifulEggnog.

I want to know what your gender means to you, how you define it, what it means for you to "be" that gender and how you define it. Don't fuss about 'correct definitions' or anything, this is about your experience, I want to know what it means to you. How you relate to that gender, perceive it.

Genders have a social construction aspect and is very subjective, so I think people's subjective, personal views of their own are both important and interesting. Inquiring mind wants to know! interviewer

I'll share some of mine I guess.I was a trans woman until the contradictions sharpened to a razor's edge after reading Gender Outlaw and The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto. My brain got cracked in half. I have always hated the effects testosterone would have on my body, so estrogen was a given, but while I do identify with certain things that are commonly associated with being a woman... if nothing is inherently gendered, what even is a gender? niko-concern I had a whole little episode about it in the megathread once.

As I went on from there, I realised that while I like certain things about "being a woman", equally I found I'd been sort of stifled by trying to fit into the social role. The women I have always related to most are the cis autistic women who basically yeet presentation in favour of dressing for sensory comfort. Almost kinda non binary, in a way... The more I interrogated binary gender in relation to myself, the more I dug up stuff like this. Also I didn't really like that "woman" is associated with cis people a lot, I really like the trans part of my identity, feel a lot of love for it. I've felt freer and mentally clearer and truer to myself as a Non Binary Transfem, it's cool and funny. What does it mean to me? It represents my goofy sometimes-androgynous presentation, my lack of cissie gender, how being neurodiverse influences my view, being a funny noody goblin. Share yours =)

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[โ€“] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm nonbinary AMAB leaning masc but I'm very much gender-agnostic on a personal level, which I think is quite common for autistic people.

I tend to prefer spending time with women and enbies but I think that's because I live in a pretty patriarchal society and there's a lot of weird proscriptive masculinity that's applied to people who present as men here and I'm not interested in all that and I don't vibe with it, so a lot of men don't take kindly to me being a weird little guy who doesn't care for whatever gendered rules I'm supposed to be adhering to. Some women here are also rigid in their expectations of people who present as men but generally they exist in circles I don't move within so it's much less of a thing in my experience.

I haven't really had a chance to sit down and hash out my gender identity seriously because of other more pressing concerns so I just settle on being on the enby spectrum somewhere. I think that also speaks to my attitude of gender agnosticism - for other people gender is a very important or pressing issue and I 100% respect and support this but for me, I have never addressed the higher priority stuff to get down to my own experience of gender.

[โ€“] ashinadash@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Aw hell yeah. Goes without saying that being a weird little guy is cool, we support that around here. The point you bring up about (cisnormative-ass) women's expectations of anyone who presents "male" fascinates me too...

Hopefully someday the pressing concerns will be less pressing and you can get down to your own experience, generally speaking though it seems to me like autistic people are either not very into gender or really really into gender. I adore how being neurodiverse broadly interacts with gender!

[โ€“] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 6 months ago

autistic people are either not very into gender or really really into gender.

I feel like both at the same time

[โ€“] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The point you bring up about (cisnormative-ass) women's expectations of anyone who presents "male" fascinates me too...

It's really interesting because most women are genuinely cool with me being a queer oddball but there's a particular type of cisnormative women who are really judgy and averse to me being me. I'm not bothered; I'm the type of person who is better suited to a refined palate and I get that I'm more of an acquired taste (lol) so I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

But yeah, I'm just doing my thing and a fair few men find it off putting but occasionally some women do too. I don't need their approval though.

I think in some respects I must feel "more" transgressive to people with traditional gender norms because I pass as a man pretty well, especially if you don't know me, because I'm not really out there and camp or loud or performative about being enby so I think it lulls some people into a false sense of complacency but then I will effortlessly transgress gender norms as it suits me and I think more conservative-minded people get a bit of whiplash from it because I'm "supposed" to be a man or because they put me in the box labeled Man but sometimes I do things outside of that because I don't have any regard for that stuff, whereas for example if I was a really camp gay dude then people would sorta anticipate more transgressive behaviour with regards to gender and stuff so those transgressions are seen as less of an affront comparatively (if that makes sense).

Hopefully someday the pressing concerns will be less pressing and you can get down to your own experience

Thanks, I really appreciate it!

I'm not sure if it's just such a non-issue for me that it's never going to be a priority at all because I'm actually agender deep down or whether making sense of my gender will make it to the top of my to-do list some day. Either way, it doesn't feel like a burning issue for me and that is its own privilege so I tend to keep quiet about contributing to spaces like these since I'm not even really an expert in my own gender so I don't have much to contribute and I also don't really need anything from this space on a personal level (e.g. support or guidance). That probably sounds a bit weird but it's not internalised queerphobia afaik - I am definitely part of the community, I identify with it, and I'm fine with that, but I don't need much and I don't have much to provide either so I mostly stick to the sidelines.

[โ€“] ashinadash@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

but there's a particular type of cisnormative women who are really judgy and averse to me being me.

I, however, am bothered by her! She is upholding the cisnormative social order!!! leslie-shining You're goddamn right about not needing that approval.

You are subverting their expectations on the sly, nice. I like it, annoying that people make these assumptions to begin with however.

Either way it ends up being, I appreciate your contribution, thank you nia-peace But yeah, in a way you are lucky to be able to just have gender be a non-issue and also not need tons of support from this comm or its people, so I suppose congrats lol.

[โ€“] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Either way it ends up being, I appreciate your contribution, thank you

Thanks for the opportunity to contribute and for your responses.

But yeah, in a way you are lucky to be able to just have gender be a non-issue and also not need tons of support from this comm or its people, so I suppose congrats lol.

Yeah, I'm super lucky because I have only ever experienced very mild gender dysphoria mostly when I was younger and I was trying hard to be the man that I was expected to be. It wasn't like crawling-out-of-my-skin dysphoria or like crushing dissociative dysphoria but more just "this isn't a good fit for me, I'd prefer to be something else". I also haven't really had to face the prospect of losing friends or family over transitioning since I pass as a man and I'm just very indifferent about how my gender is perceived or represented - you can see me as a man and I'd be like "Yeah, I have a beard. That makes sense." but if you see me as a they or a she I am equally fine with it since... meh. Which means I'm immune to misgendering and people who try to consciously inflict gender dysphoria in me.

(Actually, at one point I was a spectre haunting R*ddit's far right and because I occasionally dipped my toe in trans meme spaces to better understand the experience and discourse of trans men and trans women [not implying as an enby I'm not under the trans umbrella but I think there's a qualitative difference for trans women and men who transition compared to my enby transition, which was more like detatching from socialisation and norms than it was crossing from one side of the gender aisle to the other], there was this narrative that the far right goofs started forming that I was a trans woman. They started doing their best to insult me and to push me to ending things because they had this false concept of me and trans-ness in their minds. At first it was a little bit irritating because it wasn't nice to be exposed to all that transphobia but then when I realised that every insult they slung at me and every attempt to goad me into SH was a completely wasted effort on their behalf, that each time they tried to harass me represented one less opportunity for a trans woman or man to be harassed by them, I actively embraced this and leaned into it. It was kinda neat to soak up that negativity knowing that it was going to make life a little bit easier for some trans folk who might be having a really difficult time and who would otherwise be targeted by them because I was effectively immune to that harm they were trying to inflict. At the risk of being indulgent and self-aggrandizing here, I've never felt like a superhero in my life but when I realised that all this stuff was bouncing off of me and it was shielding someone else who could genuinely be wounded by it, I felt a little taste of what it must feel like to be one.)

The upshot of all this is that I've never experienced gender euphoria and I don't think I ever will but, then again, those who do not climb the mountain do not get to experience the exhilarating view from the peak - personally I don't feel any urge to hike but I have nothing but admiration for the people who do.

[โ€“] LocalOaf@hexbear.net 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sorry if this is a faux pas to comment on an older thread, but I somehow missed this and @ReadFanon@hexbear.net's comments really hit close to home for me and I really appreciated hearing them and just wanted to show some gratitude. I'm a spectrum-y enby too, but am more on the dysphoric trans femme side of it, but everything you had to say about gender agnosticism and discomfort with patriarchal gender norms rang extremely true to my own experience.

I've always been a queer lil' weirdo since I was a kid before I really had a conception of what that meant, but being AMAB and being pressured away from "feminine" friendships with girls and being pressured to act more masculine than I am or wanted to be or could convincingly fake was really distressing for me. Being kinda slow to grasp social norms and cues, the slow and awkward divergence of my friend groups as a kid into "boys" and "girls" around the start of middle school age was really alienating as someone who didn't really get what "normal" kids were feeling starting puberty and discovering their orientations and getting crushes and starting to want to go on dates and stuff.

Realizing in my early teens that the frostiness towards me I felt from some of my girl friends that I didn't understand was because I was now being perceived as "a guy" instead of "another kid that I'm friends with" because girls of that age have to sort of develop a form of hypervigilance about (perceived) boys because of how manipulative and duplicitous straight cis teen boys can get to try seduce girls. It took me awhile to figure it out, but looking back, that social dissonance I felt from being basically softly excommunicated from "kid (feminine)" to "teen (gendered male, possible threat to teen girls)" was so jarring that it really ended up solidifying my internal concept of gender down the road.

By broad standards, I've always been kinda non-binary in terms of affect and interests growing up, but that really clarified how gender works for "normal people" to a degree where I went from "I mean, I'm a boy, right? That's what I'm supposed to be like according to everyone I guess even though I feel like I kinda suck at boy-ness compared to the other boys" to "okay yeah, idk wtf I actually am or if there's a term for whatever I am or if there's other people like me out there, but I'm damn well sure I'm Not A Guyโ„ข๏ธ."

Exploring my own feelings about that helped me alleviate some of my hangups about gender and made me understand and be more comfortable with my own gender identity and understand now that part of that discomfort I couldn't place or nail down growing up was dysphoria, but what you described about your own experiences really opened up a lot of shit I'd kinda buried mentally. In a post-gendernorm society, I'd probably be comfortable being a trans femme enby that's like, 7/10ths femme, 3/10ths masc in a kinda fruity way, but in the world we live in now, the most salient point of my gender identity is Not A Guyโ„ข๏ธ and being clear to cis men and women, and people that aren't cishet men understanding that I'm in their camp.

[โ€“] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Ahhh! How did I not get a notification about this comment (or how did I miss it)??

Thanks for sharing your story with me. One day we'll abolish enforced gender norms and you'll get to be 7/10ths femme, 3/10ths masc, and 10/10ths mind your damn business - I'm just doing my thing. That's a world worth fighting for.

And thanks for the reality check. The last thing I was expecting was for my contribution to resonate with anyone since I don't have it anywhere near sorted out in myself. I'm going to think on this a lot because obviously I'm operating under a false paradigm with the way that I value my own contributions. Your comment has inspired a precious opportunity for my personal growth, and I'm super grateful for your reply!

[โ€“] LocalOaf@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Aww, thank you! catgirl-heart

I forgot about making the comment too, so rereading this all kinda helped me mentally get my footing with some recent uncomfortable stuff with some family relationships.hexbear-non-binary

[โ€“] khizuo@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I don't know if this is uncommon among nonbinary people or not (certainly seems to be in this thread at least), but I have a gender. I actually have a very strong experience of my personal gender. But my gender is just an extremely subjective personal lens through which I experience the world. Idk if I can encompass all of it in a verbal description, but I will try my best.

extremely long post

I was coercively assigned female at birth and I get a lot of dysphoria from that fact. I've always experienced strong social dysphoria, I hate getting perceived/gendered as a girl or woman. I want to take testosterone to fix this, as well as to solve some physical dysphoria problems that I experience (a lot of feelings of incongruence up in this body!) This took me a while to work out, though; for a while I thought that maybe I would be comfortable as a nonbinary person who did not physically transition, until the contradictions sharpened within me or something and I was pushed to the realization that yes, I do in fact want some fat redistribution and a lower voice. Top surgery took me even longer, because I thought for a while that I liked my boobs, but I realized rather recently that I only like them from an aesthetic point of view, and that actually living with them is kind of a huge pain that I would rather not deal with.

However, while I think I would prefer if (irl) I was perceived as a man, to some level that still makes me uncomfortable. I would only prefer it insomuch as I would prefer it to being perceived as a woman; no more than that. I do not feel like a man, I do not want to be a man. I do not even feel or identify as a masculine person. This is why I do not like using the label "transmasc" for myself even if it technically fits me as a person CAFAB who wants T. This does create some awkward situations sometimes, especially online. I do not fit neatly into transmasc spaces because I really don't find myself identifying with transmasculinity; hexbear is my main online trans community rn. I try my best to delineate that I am not transfem and cannot speak to that experience, while also not incorrectly gendering myself as transmasc. (I hope I'm doing an okay job of that? Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing that poorly.)

Another aspect to this is HRT, and the fact that I'm not on it yet. I want it, it's been about two years now since I confirmed I wanted it; but in that time I've been living in a very unstable household. I'm going to be temporarily moving out later this year and that's when I plan to get it. I feel like my experience of gender is very subject to change once I inject the funnyman hormones for the first time. Maybe I'll start identifying with transmasculinity then? Who knows.

Unironically I view my gender through the lens of the things I care about the most. It's like a personal xenogender. My gender is swarming cicadas, it's brutalist architecture, it's the sci-fi megastructure, it's abandoned buildings and rusting metal, it's insect exoskeletons, it's industrial and cyberpunk. It's the art I like best โ€” surrealism, illustration, abstraction, pen and ink, explosions of violent color. It's being a communist and a vegan. It's masking in all public spaces because I still take covid seriously. It's my music taste and fashion sense โ€” I'm a gestures vaguely gothy punky something-or-other, I DIY my clothes and I listen to tunes, I visibly stick out in public because of my fashion and I don't care.

These are gender markers, to me, the way "skirts" have been constructed as a gender marker for women and "suits" have been constructed as a gender marker for men. I mean, while both of these markers are real phenomena neither of them are innate or immutable, they're all products of the dialectical process of history; so ultimately my personal gender markers are just as real as they are, in a way, even if I'm the only person who sees and accepts them. I'm currently like, theory-crafting an idea that subcultures and aesthetics constitute their own forms of gender in the modern age. There is a performance and a set of interests associated with being goth or punk โ€” almost like there is a performance and set of interests associated with being a "man" or "woman". Of course, they are not yet the same (and within subcultures there are still divisions of gender and a lot of misogyny), but with how the concept of gender is currently shifting in front of our very eyes, I think it's very possible that in the future, gender will be more of a subcultural experience than a superstructural one. Maybe I'm wrong on that one, who knows.

I'm not a fan of the idea that being nonbinary makes you inherently more "queer" or "transgressive" than being a binary trans person (whatever these categories even mean โ€” I think they're a bunch of fluid, noodly nonsense anyways.) There's a good Lily Alexandre video that sums up my thoughts on that whole discourse. Ultimately, we're all smashing the cissexist notions of gender. Capitalism revolutionized the understanding of gender for millions of people. Should communism win, which I believe it will, I believe a second revolution will come โ€” and this time a better one.

[โ€“] belligerentkitten@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't have a gender. I experience dysphoria at things that feel like attempts to gender me, though as i get older i have become more comfortable with dressing in ways that lead strangers to perceive me as a gender. though i don't think i would ever be comfortable with people who know me using gendered terms for me etc.

but yeah. no gender for me. i don't even really feel nonbinary, even though the term technically applies since i am not binary. you could say i'm a kitten instead of a man or a woman, though i don't consider kitten to be my gender either.

i am post-gender. i am just myself. someone forgot to install the gender software in my brain. also i'm intersex, and i feel like this has impacted how i responded to the gender roles society threw at me, because i just sort of assumed none of it applied to me. and my mother, while i was assigned a sex, was very opposed to raising kids differently based on gender so i never really got much of it from my family.

i've always been curious about what gender feels like to other people, so i've asked a lot of people, cis and trans, and what i find curious is that they all tell me different things. there is no one unifying thing that all women or all men will tell you makes them a woman or a man. and i think that is a good thing. gender is very personal, and we all resolve the trauma of gender being imposed on us very differently, and reclaim it in whatever way feels best.

i remember talking to a cis-lite friend of mine. she told me that she only identified as a woman because she was so often pushed into the roles of caring, cleaning etc, and so she identifies as a woman for the convenience of that.

[โ€“] Anvil_Lavigne@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

the trauma of gender being imposed on us

this is my answer to the question. that's all it is to me. i was just telling someone how like, being always taken in by the women & being mocked by the guys kinda eventually led me to this situation where i'm owning all the vile garbage from my past, but also the affirmation of the ladyfolk. if you want a label, non-binary woman makes the most sense to me. i'm so over labels, though. just. Gender Chaotic.

be confused, cissies; be afraid of the feelings you have perceiving me.

something i have been feeling lately. us just, existing. in a public space, with our own bodies. often feels like gender warfare. people are going to perceive us, react to us, struggle with their own concepts of gender because we don't fit into them. and that can be dangerous, yeah. it's no fucking wonder we venture into the outside world so rarely. but just existing, and excercising control over our own bodies, is a fuck you to them. and i'm proud of that i guess.

and that means far more to me than a label - though i don't begrudge anyone who finds labels comforting or useful.

[โ€“] kristina@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Gender is estrogen to me and the more estrogen I have the more gendery I am

If my estrogen is off I pretty much go nuts. Vision gets blurry and I become very sensitive and irritable and prone to dysphoria

I've worn all sorts of clothes and stuff since transitioning, and I've found my comfort zone, but if my estrogen is off I feel like shit in anything

[โ€“] machiabelly@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

I'm the same way. But, Injections are the only methods that have worked for me. Unfortunately they make my estrogen levels look like Mavericks. (A beach with very large waves). I had to switch to taking the injections once every 3 days. When I did the injections once a week I had ~2 days that were ruined by having low E.

[โ€“] MusicOwl@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago

I had to do the same thing switching to every 5 days injecting rather than every week. Those last two days were often terrible.

[โ€“] kristina@hexbear.net 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You could try doing pills or patches maybe to even the low out thonk

[โ€“] machiabelly@hexbear.net 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Pills didnt work for me. They produced a really high percentage of the weaker forms of estrogen. The moment I switched to injections my titties got sore and I started growing.

I tried patches and couldnt get my levels above 100. I wouldve needed to wear a comical amount of patches for it to work.

With injections 1/3 days, 2.5mg, my peaks are around 350 and my trough is above 100. I'd be happier with my peaks around 600 but my doctor is happier where they are now.

Taking injections so often is annoying but its the best option I've found.