traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns
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From what I've seen it's a pretty decent character driven drama - but it's also very much "baby's first character driven drama". A lot of scenes involve the characters spelling out their feelings in no uncertain terms which, if your media taste is still at that level, reads as really deep and interesting, compared to something that's more subtle about it which might just read as uninteresting to someone who isn't following what's happening.
oh, fuck off
My comment proved too challenging for you to read, apparently.
When you get older, maybe you'll learn to appreciate sincerity again. Until then, fuck all the way off, lib
truly this is the most challenging of online media.
I edited my comment to be less mean but I've decided to stop. You are in your 30s, you should be consuming more challenging media than TADC. That shit about cartesian dualism or whatever is fucking cope about a plotline that's one step removed from Sword Art Online. You are what people are talking about when they complain about emotionally stunted adult children.
Personally, I would dismiss anyone complaining about "emotionally stunted adult children" out of hand as a form of reactionary nonsense. "Arrested development", by which I mean people being stuck in life situations seemingly broadly unchanged since high school, and left unable to attain any of the typical markers of adulthood, is an issue that impacts countless people; but it is a systemic issue of our mode of production literally pricing people out of adulthood. This issue won't get solved by yelling at strangers over the Internet for watching cartoons — doing so is counterproductive in fact! The cartoons, as a matter of fact, are a complete "goddam" non-issue, unless you're already fully programmed into some depressing idea of "adulthood" meaning that one must become a drone of capital that decries any form of whimsy or creativity, because you need to appear Sophisticated™ and Mature™ at all times. Are we really going to return to the brony struggle session of 2023?
As I like to put it:
First you're not too old for Pokemon.
Then you get too old for Pokemon.
Then you stop being too old for Pokemon.
There's a difference between "everything must be serious at all times" and "people need to nurture the ability to be serious". My contention is that a specific internet show has really obvious, on the nose writing, and that if that's still your benchmark for good writing by the time you hit your thirties then you have failed as a critical consumer of media.
I have taken a few hours to do some fun things and hopefully calm myself down a bit, lest I get unnecessarily fired up about a cartoon I haven't even seen more than a few minutes of and didn't particularly like from that limited experience. What I'll say is that there is a valid point that you're trying to make, which is that people shouldn't be reading only YA until they're 35. I would agree that people need to challenge themselves and "nurture the ability to be serious." But your actually valid point here is just getting completely muddied by this whole condescending superiority complex you have, the brainworms around age making you unnecessarily hostile, and also that you assume what other people mean instead of letting them explain themselves. I did actually click like on your first comment: I thought you were being very unnecessarily condescending, and the person you were replying to was in their right to tell you to fuck off for that, but if you'd just left your comment at you finding the writing in TADC to be too on the nose with the characters always spelling out their feelings, then that would've been a perfectly valid critique of the work. I mean, I've heard people say that Moby Dick is on the nose with its symbolism, and it is! All the symbolism in that book is spelled out for you, yet it's still considered a classic and I've enjoyed it. I also find House, MD to have very on the nose writing with the characters' emotions being constantly spelled out for you, but that doesn't mean I don't like House, it just means that that aspect of it does irritate me a bit. And I thought at first that when you said "baby's first", you were referring to the writers, not the viewers — because the writing in TADC is going to suffer a bit from the fact that it's an independent production, right? My understanding is that projects like TADC are made at least partially to build portfolios for the people who work on them, so the most masterful episodic writing won't be found in independent animation of any kind, writers in independent animation are still finding their footing and honing their skills. But no, you were referring to the viewers as babies!
All that Doubtingtammy said was "the overall plot explores cartesian skepticism/dualism, much like the Matrix (and I Have No Mouth...)" — which is a very different claim from saying that TADC is a "benchmark for good writing": that claim is entirely your own invention pulled from thin air. Doubtingtammy didn't even assert that they thought that TADC explored those themes well or even intentionally, just that they thought that the themes were there, and likely inspired by those previous works, and a reason why they found it surprising that young people liked the show. We can maybe infer that Doubtingtammy thought that those themes were explored "well" in TADC, but "well" in what sense? "Well" for a work of contemporary independent animation, or "well" for any work of fiction in any genre or medium, ever? Doubtingtammy didn't specify, but I would've assumed the former, and I guess you must've assumed the latter and just run with your interpretation. The least you could've done is asked why Doubtingtammy had that reading of the work instead of jumping right to calling them an emotionally stunted adult baby. Isn't critical consumption of media all about backing up your analysis using the text?!
In conclusion, I want to say that there doesn't need to be a dichotomy between enjoying "mature" and "immature" things. I'm assuming that Doubtingtammy has read a lot more books and seen a lot more shows and movies than just the ones mentioned in their first comment, and many of those unmentioned works probably are things you'd consider much more well-written than TADC. People should learn to read more than just YA, but that doesn't mean losing the ability to enjoy YA! YA doesn't have to become boring just because there are other things you can read, you just need to be able to appreciate YA for what it is. You know? Like, I like Ante (1975) for what it is — a groundbreaking representation of Sámi issues in the popular culture of Norway — but that doesn't mean I think a 70s live action kids' show is the best thing since sliced bread, it really isn't.
It's just a good thing that some people are able to like things that other people can't.
Fair criticism. But I maintain that if someone comes at me with an unprovoked "fuck off" I am entitled to respond to it.
I said that I like a show, and then provided some context for why other people around my age find it appealing. Then you barged in to tell me I'm immature because you don't find the character development or writing (aspects I didn't even mention) is up to your Mature Adult standards.
that's not even something I'd disagree with. It's a high-concept cartoon, not a novel.
I didn't say that I hold the show up as a benchmark for good writing. You are hallucinating more than chatgpt
lmao. You take consooming very seriously
That only happened in your head. I did not call you immature until you started swearing at me unprovoked.
You went at them for talking about a cartoon on the assumption that cartoons are the only media they consume. That's pretty fucking provocative. Also rude and uncalled for.
I didn't "go at them". I gave my opinion on a cartoon. People then came at me completely out of proportion because I was criticizing their treats.
you suck
Someone offered their opinion of a cartoon and you responded on the assumption that that was all they watched. Very insulting.
My initial response was strictly my opinion on the cartoon itself.
It is really funny to me to call an independent animation production made by a trans woman that is more than anything else about how many trans women engage in incredibly toxic repression that ends up hurting themselves and everyone around them, and the permanent, fatal consequences of doubling down on that repression, a 'treat'.
Do you think TADC is just a 'treat' simply because it had the good luck to become incredibly popular? Because I strongly disagree. I find it one of the most compelling and relatable depictions of a trans woman in fiction, period, and I honestly believe that TADC is probably going to play a role in cracking many eggs and preventing many suicides because of that fact.
Maybe investigate the thing you're talking about before writing it off because it has bright colors or whatever. The success of TADC has been a breath of fresh air for a lot of trans women I know, because most of them have NEVER seen a popular depiction of a trans woman that actually reflected our reality, that actually reflects the consequences of the cisheteronormative society we live in, that actually reflects many modern trans women in a realistic way instead of being some cis persons misunderstood, idealized image.
And all that at a time of increasing oppression of transgender people.
I guess you didn't pick up on all that. Maybe Gooseworx should've made the characters state their emotions even more clearly, it seems like the show was a little too mature for where you're at right now.
This sneering derision you hold for the notion of people liking a piece of media that you don't (fed by some unexamined ableism, judging by your moderation history and comments about "emotionally stunted adult children") and that they might find some emotional resonance in it indicates a chasm of emotional maturity far greater than the 30something YA readers you've made into your personal specter.
And I say this as someone who also holds a dislike of the show for their own reasons, so find a different reason to write me off. At least I actually investigated it rather than parading around and shouting to the high heavens what a terribly smart and above it all boy I am.
In my initial response I explicitly said that I liked the piece of media. Now I'm exclusively responding to the disproportionate number of people I seem to have angered by pointing out that the writing in it is extremely on the nose and obvious, which it is.
Your comments are public. I am not naive enough to believe that is only what you were saying. Attempting to paint over backhanded smug garbage about media taste not being on a high enough level as being just "expressing your opinion" on it, especially since you took the mask off and allowed the ableism fueling it to show (modlogs are public too remember), is really gross. There's a reason you kept getting modsniped.
Also let the irony escape no one that you also said all this wearing an Aqua Teen avatar, a show with such lofty mature writing as "what if a banana sexually assaulted people for twelve minutes" or "what if Hitler was a balloon and stopped the Holocaust because he liked Adam Sandler movies".
Never underestimate internet forum's ability to make you spend an obscene amount of time defending something you don't even like because the haters dislike it for the wrong reasons.
My initial comment asserted exactly one thing: that TADC has simplistic writing and that younger people probably appreciate that. After that, people started swearing at me, which is when I asserted that people shouldn't limit themselves to just watching simplistic media. After that, more people swore at me, which is when I got mad, insulted the original person, and the mods nuked my comments to that point.
My avatar was and remains a total non-sequitur.
It is not ableism to say that a person shouldn't keep consuming children's media exclusively for their entire life.
Sure let's check that.
Hmm. And then as for "After that, people started swearing at me, which is when I asserted that people shouldn't limit themselves to just watching simplistic media", someone very justifiably told you to fuck off for that very backhanded sanctimonious bit about "if your media taste is still at that level", you responded with "idk how old you are, but a millennial should be consuming media more challenging than TADC. Tell me I'm wrong." which is very much NOT just saying people shouldn't limit themselves to simplistic media, and is entirely rendering judgement.
and THAT is where the ableism comes in. This has nothing to do with "exclusively consuming children's media" or "limiting themselves to just watching simplistic media". I frankly do not care how frustrated you are at someone for committing the high crime of telling you to fuck off, you don't get to pull a Vaush and start spewing reactionary dogwater just because you deem the other person bad.
you are seriously insufferable man the reddit bro is coming from inside the house here why are you like this
I reiterate that my initial comment on this was just about the show having simplistic writing, then people started jumping down my throat.
suck shit out of my ass
Okay: you're wrong.
To elaborate: 30 years ago, people like you were saying that you can get too old for anime or video games.
It's fine to enjoy things, but if you only ever read YA novels then you won't be maturing as a reader.
The person you're replying to said they were in their mid 30s in the comment you replied to, so perhaps he hwa beareþ þe Aqua Teen Hunger Force profile Picture sholde not be þrowynge Stanes in his owne glass Hus when it comes to media literacy. I see you walked back your "adult baby" comment with that edit, too.
Like Aqua Teen Hunger Force?