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submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by ButtBidet@hexbear.net to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net

I haven't seen so much effort put into a set in years. This would decent if it wasn't so damn propogandistic. Of course the message is "communism hates science".

From the Netflix science-fiction series Three Body Problem

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[-] AutomatedPossum@hexbear.net 85 points 5 months ago

Haven't seen the Netflix adaptation, but portraying the red guards during the cultural revolution as anti-science goons that beat up physics professors for teaching Einstein is already in the book, and that view of them is in fact the official party line under Dengism. The cultural revolution was at its core a struggle session between the left and the right wing of the party about whether to exterminate any and all vestiges of reactionary thought in the PRC or whether to search a policy of equidistance between the USSR and the USA and then open up the economy and integrate the country into capitalist world trade to develop its productive forces. As we see today, the faction that the Gang of Four referred to as "capitalist roaders" won and their decisions have completely reshaped how China is today.

I'm not saying any of this to be sectarian, as i am torn on the subject myself, ideologically siding with the left wing of the CPC, but also seeing the success of Deng's reforms in the realm of realpolitik and productive development. I particularly invite everybody who is better versed on the history of the CPC than i am to correct mistakes in this post, and if anybody can compare changes in how the scene is shown in the book vs how it is adapted for western audiences by Netflix, this would also be a welcome addition. Just saying that this isn't an idea that's new to the Netflix version, and that the original version isn't a Western "communism hates science", but a Dengist "ultras hate science".

[-] Maoo@hexbear.net 55 points 5 months ago

It's the same as in the book.

Also the author is well-known for pushing back on liberal claims about Xinjiang so they're not knee-jerk anticommunist with their depiction of a struggle session. Like you mention it's a pretty standard way for Dengists to criticize them.

[-] IMF_DOOM@hexbear.net 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Like to the degree that republicans have tried to get the series boycotted multiple times

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 32 points 5 months ago

Lmao these lib scumbags are okay with killing muslims in their imperialist wars, but when china does re-education of reactionaries suddenly they're concerned about "genocide"

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 35 points 5 months ago

I wish I knew more about the Cultural Revolution as it's understood within China.

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[-] Frank@hexbear.net 49 points 5 months ago

I couldn't say, I don't really watch tv and have no basis of comparison. But i do want to take this opportunity to slag tbp - the "Dark Forest" is lazy thinking that reflects contemporary geopolitics, and not even that very well. It's tech-bro silliness. The problems of trying to blow up another planet across interstellar distances is so vast the author doesn't even try to make it seem feasible, he just made up a bunch of ridiculous magic excuse "technology" to make the plot work. And the plot is just "wot if nature was red in tooth and claw? Make's you think! Doesn't it?" Just reductionist social darwinist bullshit. "The optimal and indeed only survival action is to kill literally everyone you encounter the moment you encounter them!" Is silly bullshit. It doesn't work in nature, it doesn't work on Earth, and it is not meaningfully possible across interstellar distances with any technology that doesn't rely on magical thinking to function.

[-] TrashGoblin@hexbear.net 31 points 5 months ago

It's relatively easy to blow up another planet across interstellar distances, as long as you accept that 1) it will take thousands of years to accomplish, and 2) you will never possibly see any benefit from it.

I'm much more in line with Posadas on the motivations of aliens capable of interstellar travel; there really is no reason to take the Dark Forest seriously as a solution to the Fermi Paradox. The thing that annoys me the most about The Three Body Problem is that the aliens have "a wizard did it" levels of technology, but can't solve their survival problem in their own star system or find uninhabited star systems to terraform. It's all just "how do we justify interstellar invasion in a novel now that we know interstellar invasion is impossible and/or not worthwhile". Like you say, it's contrived.

[-] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It’s all just “how do we justify interstellar invasion in a novel now that we know interstellar invasion is impossible and/or not worthwhile”. Like you say, it’s contrived.

I think the author would agree with this sentence lol, I've read nearly everything Liu Cixin has written that's been translated into English, he did say somewhere that sci-fi wouldn't be interesting if it was about what was the likely thing to happen. He said he doesn't believe the stories he writes are possible or likely, but just a way to explore different concepts.

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[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 30 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

tbh Liu Cixin is basically a rationalist liberal. The whole serie is based on pseudoscience like ''game theory'' and realism geopolitics

[-] Frank@hexbear.net 40 points 5 months ago

Game theorists when people keep choosing cooperate maddened

[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Game theorists really sound like some pseudo science shit. Kind of like how Rousseau made up ''social contract'' of hobbes ''leviathan'' when social collapse requires explanation for authoritarianism or state of exception.

spoilerbut tbh I can forgive him at the end of the Serie when it comes to a conclusion that game theory is stupid

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 18 points 5 months ago

With the spoiler...I was about to say lol, the conclusion shows how bullshit and pointless the dark forest is,. I think it's the whole point of the series.

[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 17 points 5 months ago

Yeah that’s what i got from that. It’s basically that article about how there was a US think tank that gave the task to solve the nuclear tension problem during the Cold war to a bunch of STEMslords and humanities students. The former managed to nuke the earth 9/10 the latter managed to diffuse world tension.

But somehow the book made it about genders determinism. The whole serie has some weird obsession with gender binary which is problematic. I guess if you feel REALLY generous you can interpret it about how toxic masculinity logic thinking provoke the end of universe. Imho it’s just because Liu CiXin can’t write characters well

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 15 points 5 months ago

But somehow the book made it about genders determinism

Yeah there is some weird hangups about women in the book that are just cringe , probably has to do with the fact the writer is a STEMlord lol

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[-] dat_math@hexbear.net 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Game theorists really sound like some pseudo science shit

When it's taken out of its original context, understanding the behavior of perfectly rational risk-minimizers in systems of rules, it usually is pseudo science shit.

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[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 24 points 5 months ago

Even at our worst, humanity never tried to kill all of a new group that they encountered. Trade and diplomacy (admittedly with a wide range if violence underpinning it) has always been the human M.O. with inly a handful of very rare exceptions.

Even European genocide of Native Americans started off with intentions of trade. In fact, it was really only British colonization, carried on by their American and Canadian descendents, that opnelt tried to exterminate the natives. French colonization (outside of Caribbean slave plantations) was mainly focused in trade networks centered around frontier outposts. Spain came in a toppled the existing power structures in Meso and Southern America and ruled over the deposed empires.

Encounters with advanced alien races wouldn't result in the intentional destruction of humanity, but instead would likely end up with total upheaval of our society, and the powers that be are terrified of that.

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[-] SkibidiToiletFanAcct@hexbear.net 40 points 5 months ago

>Barges into Lenin All-Union Academy of Agricultural Sciences

>"Stop Studying Genetics"

>refuses to elaborate

>Leaves

[-] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 24 points 5 months ago

Careful there's still like two Lysenko Stans here

[-] AutomatedPossum@hexbear.net 18 points 5 months ago

Now i'm reminded of that Maoist GF bit from some time ago where the GF would chase birds and the poster would tell her "these aren't even sparrows!" and she'd call him a Lysenkoist.

[-] Kaplya@hexbear.net 37 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

As a Chinese, this is probably the part I like the most about the Netflix version. The other changes aren’t good at all, but the Tencent version also filmed the CR part but ended up on the cutting floor due to the censorship. The director and the actors have said as much.

The Netflix CR scene is almost a 1:1 recreation of the book’s Chinese dialogue. At least Netflix didn’t add unnecessary lines which could be interpreted as blatant propaganda. Here, it’s just being faithful to the book.

The Cultural Revolution was a huge mess. Most people agree to that.

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[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 32 points 5 months ago

Netflix is so shit, its like they have a quota per movie/series for anticommunist propaganda.

[-] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 41 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What happened with Stranger Things still pisses me the hell off. Season one starts off with an obviously evil, child torturing American government agency as the villain. But then a bunch of those agents die at the end of the season, they are replaced, and suddenly in season two this exact same organization is benevolent, really cares about the protagonists' well being, and is just super duper sorry about all the atrocities they committed.

Real lib-brained thinking that the problem with the US and its institutions is that a bunch of mean bad people have accidentally fallen into positions of power and we just need to replace them with good nice people to make everything all better.

So they'd fully rehabilitated the show's first villain, and now they're in need of a new one. Of fucking course the idea the writers land on is to just totally recreate the evil government agency from season one, but now it's the evil commie USSR doing it.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 30 points 5 months ago

Department of Defense contracts be like

[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 31 points 5 months ago

Ah yes, America. Famously pro-science. what-the-hell

[-] Des@hexbear.net 28 points 5 months ago

of course the thing that helped drive science further and faster then ever before as well as an ideology believed in by some of the most prestigious scientists worldwide absolutely despises science

[-] Great_Leader_Is_Dead@hexbear.net 25 points 5 months ago

This is in the book tho.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 5 months ago

Can't say I'm surprised about this. Of course they would try and cram in as much anti-communism as possible. They probably saw the anti-cultural revolution stuff in the original and just assumed it was talking about communism in general. I doubt most Americans even know what the cultural revolution is, beyond "bad commie stuff."

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[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 25 points 5 months ago

regardless of the politics, the beginning and the motives are pretty accurate to the novels.

The only good thing they did was to split the main character into multiple one because in the novel the main character feels like a compound character

[-] smokeppb@hexbear.net 24 points 5 months ago

Netflix is dogshit now anyways. Never payed for it, never will.

[-] EelBolshevikism@hexbear.net 22 points 5 months ago

Something I think people are missing: American audiences won’t get the actual context of the Cultural Revolution being considered a bad thing. They’ll just see it and think “oh so communism bad”

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[-] RedQuestionAsker2@hexbear.net 21 points 5 months ago

Can't remember if it's Mobo Gao or Dongping Han, but in one of their books, the scientific achievements of the cultural revolution are listed

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 19 points 5 months ago

doomer Of course Netflix would ruin the series, just go watch the Tencent version, please.

[-] Gorillatactics@hexbear.net 17 points 5 months ago

It makes the cultural revolution look too organized, it was anarchy!

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this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
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