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Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Not cringe, but cliche yeah.
I also have noticed the trope of Crossword puzzles being a sign of brilliance/intelligence (Brooklyn 99, Stranger Things for example). Let me tell you something -- i do multiple crosswords daily to keep my hands and mind busy, and i'm a friggin moron.
and i’m a friggin moron.
That's what you think. But we think you're a genius!
But we think you're a genius!
Well I can eat a whole Hot and Ready on my own and then do a minute-long fart the next day.
I'd like to see a fully fleshed out game of Cyvasse (GoT chess) or Sava from Forgotten Realms. I actually wrote down about ten pages of a half-assed attempt at Sava, years ago.
In both cases they're borrowing the "Chess players are smart" trope. I don't mind the trope itself, but I want to be able to follow along, and not just have them make random bullshit moves.
I don't mind the use of chess as a shorthand for 'battle of wits' but I object to how badly written they usually are. Bad Genius hasn't noticed, and isn't expecting, a Queen sacrifice move by Good Genius? Please.
As bad as poker. Every round of poker in movies is a smorgasbord of high value hands:
"But can you beat a full house, Queens over nines?"
"I also have a full house, Kings over Jacks."
"I have four 10s."
"I have a Royal Flush."
"I have six Aces."
Everyone gasps!
I just want a film to get it right. I want the hero to realise he needs to fold out his amazing hand based on instincts and skill.
Also, they always play until checkmate. If there are two geniuses playing chess one of them would resign at least 3 moves before reaching checkmate.
I guess I'm a bit confused what is meant by battle of wits, is it supposed to mean, like two super geniuses going at each other? Or?
Because there are 7 year olds that would wipe the floor with me in chess, but get absolutely sent into the shadow realm in every other category mental or physical lol
Chess is a game and being good at it, maybe means you are disciplined? Patient? But intelligent, not really, not any more than any other average person or gamer.
This always bothers me so much! It always comes down to one hand, and it's ALWAYS presented prior to the deal, that this is the hand that has to win, and the hero gets a royal flush.
Oh wow. He got REALLY lucky and it required no skill at all. 🙄
That poker hands reminded me of the episode in Malcolm in the Middle where they're playing and suddenly realize there are 6 5s in the deck
That's not poker, that's multiplayer Balatro lol
As someone who plays a lot of chess, (10-20 matches per day, one day I might get decent at it), a queen sacrifice is not a big whoop, and I doubt it would result in any audible gasps from an audience if there were spectators. Those who are dorky enough to watch chess (that includes myself) knows this.
As for movie-poker, a movie named Maverick comes to mind (Mel Gibson, iirc)
Can't it be for fun?
Super cliche yes, cringe no.
It's not entirely a bad metaphor or whatever, but it's certainly tired. It's also a bit misleading. Being good at chess isn't a really a sign of high intelligence generally, it just means you're good at chess.
Chess is about memorization of moves and thinking ahead to plan for what your opponent may do.
Intelligence can be partly defined by those talents, without them, you won’t be near the top.
Very partly, since it's mostly practice and memorisation. It sounds like more basic, intrinsic kinds, like creativity and on-the-fly analysis, don't enter into it nearly as much. Uneven pairings are fait accompli.
thinking out loud: what's an entertainment sport (or game) that depicts high intelligence that i can get into like a sport?
they have Microsoft excel world championships for example, but idk if this is a good measurement lol
Get up in the ladder of Age of Empires 2? A lot of memorization, a lot of anticipation, and more visually appealing, lol.
Code Golfing would be a nice option! For example, this site has daily code golfing challenges for CSS
Come to think of it, I'm not sure if any multiplayer game stays that rich at high levels. Opponents are too unpredictable and do too much stuff; it's usually more about keeping up with the meta.
Edit: Hell, real life is kind of like that. Maybe fictional chess is just unrealistic the same way as the story.
Can you name another game that everyone else knows and can show the battle of wits?
Age of empires!
Pokémon?
Two words: Nintendos lawyers.
Nintendos? The sub atomic particles?
Actually I have no clue how Pomemom works and no clue what it is besides the fact that it's some Anime / Japanese video game... probably from Nintendo I guess.
Never played/watched it, not that I remember, but I did see a lot of Pikachu and that's all I know, it's kinda like... the Statue of Liberty that everyone knows when they think of the US (ironic in current administration tho), Pikachu is the thing I think of when I hear "Japanese Card Game played by kids all around the world", well, the ohter being YuGiOh, but I think that's more like a teen thing, but I don't remember any of that either... other than the fact that I think I used to have them with my abusive older brother.
I'm Gen Z btw.
I learned of Xiangqi (Chinese Chess) when I was like 5-7 and then the International/Western Chess at age 8 when I came to the US (I mean China probably has it too, but I was too young and it's a higher barrier to entry compared to the domestic chess), and then I think I went some random park in NYC thing and saw the Japanese Chess, I guess its some Japanese American cultural event thing? Idk don't quite remember.
So I think everyone knows a variant of Chess at least, so that comment has a point tbh.
Edit: Actually thank you for this comment, helped me remember a memory. I remember the first Western Chess set I had (shared with my older brother, since we had no one else to play with since we just arrived in the country), we got it off some local store on 86th Street in Brooklyn, NYC (USA). I was this managetic thing, like the pieces stuck to the board and the board closes by folding in half, then you can store the pieces inside and it folds up, very convienient for travel. It also had Checkers Pieces in it. Also backgamon, which we never knew how to play. (Didn't even have internet when we first got off the plane and then never bothered to learn it later on) It's a 3 in 1 set... I think it was like $10.99 or something and it was 2010.
So nostalgic... but that chess board is broken already... oppsie, I tend to break things... the magnet thing eventually fell from the pieces (like the glue holding it together failed), pieces went missing, and by 4 years later when we moved to Philly, we never played again (a lot of family violence, like physical fighting at home, mom was so worried about CPS being called on us fighting, since we were both minors at home alone... well sometimes, not all the time, he was 5 years older than me and he always wins and I get hurt so much, both physically and emotionally, I can't even fight much, I just kinda try to block the hits), and now the entire chess set is gone... I think I got mad and three it away, since we didn't even play anymore, so much family conflicts that it felt kinda "tainted".
Yeah, considering my best friends older brother had an ongoing historical WW2 wargame on his floor for 3 years in highschool, movies could step up the metaphor.
I'd make a comment about autism, but we're both on Lemmy.
"Perhaps, Mr. Bond, we can make a wager. Should you win our ultimate contest of wits, I will allow myself to be captured, but when I win, you shall be at my mercy. Mwahahahahahaha! so now only one question remains- Strategos, or Warhammer?"
Stratego* and fuck GW. 🤌🏼
Not resting until movies start using Battle for North Africa as a representation for a battle of wits.
I consider myself highly intelligent but I'm no good at chess
An old friend I had was the biggest moron I ever met. He was lovely but a proper moron, it was a fantastic combination that makes the most loveable kind of friend. Like a labrador in human skin.
He was a fucking beast at chess though.
Yah less chess more go, I wanna pause the show and see if the board positions are valid or if they just scattered stones on some lines.
I think go works better to show the back and forth of a barbed conversation, but I also think you need an understanding of the game and the current board to really carry that across and that's hard to expect of most audiences and likely an annoying constraint on the shot.
I've seen too many brain-dead streamers become decent at chess for me to ever believe it's a measure of wit, lol. At best, it's a measure of memory and mechanical thinking speed, which don't get me wrong are part of what we consider "intelligence" but it's pointless by itself, and no more important nor a better measure of intelligence than being good at StarCraft IMO.
It's definitely cliche, but I don't think it's cringe.
I don't think it works as well these days, tho. Chess is so fucking old that every possible combination of moves is well known and a good enough player would know the outcome of the game after the first move, so it's less about intelligence and more about memory.
GO might be a better game. That shit is way more in depth than Western chess and actually takes strategy all the time over memorizing movement patterns.
In some sense this is correct. Chess strategy is fairly well documented, and a skilled player will know quite a bit of how a game will play out based on a given board state.
In another sense, there are something like 10^46 legal board states that can be reached from the starting state across all legal permutations of the game rules.
It's functionally impossible for a person to know the outcome of a game from the first move.
It’s functionally impossible for a person to know the outcome of a game from the first move.
Hans Niemann twitches his cheeks
"You've already been defeated"
Very. Chess has been so over done that it's basically a solved game. Professional level chess is a game of memorizing board states, it's as much a battle of wits as karaoke.
It's why I prefer games that have hidden elements (e.g. a card hand that only you see) and/or some level of randomness.
I watched an interesting video on YouTube arguing that games of pure luck are bad but games of pure strategy (like chess) are also bad because a beginner has no chance against an experienced player and so the best games combines strategy and luck. The example they gave was backgammon. My favourite game is Catan, which involves both strategy and luck.
Catan seems like a good mix of strategy and luck. Probably part of why it is so popular.
Karaoke is a battle of chintz.
It is cliche, but people are stupid and don't understand current chess strategy.
