chat

There has not been any break in this rhetoric. Maybe it slightly wound down a little around the "end" of the War on Iraq, but even then the liberal line was to complain about the legality and competency with which the invasion and occupation were carried out, not the killing of millions. Same as what you see right now, liberals are complaining about legality re: Congress rather than the attack on another country's basic sovereignty or the people killed. They also can't help themselves in calling Maduro a dictator, being unable to cite any logic or evidence for this, because that is their current narrative for why, legality aside, this is actually a good thing. And for the few who think it's a bad thing, it is still American-centric, speculating about blowback rather than trying to understand and sympathize with the nation of Venezuela.

After Iraq there was Libya and the Arab Spring generally. After that there was genocide on Yemen (most liberals didn't pay attention to it). After that genocide in Palestine. The propaganda machine and populace are basically the same, just with different media and a slightly expanded left wing.

ah I am actually somewhat surprised with the amount of people who don't like or support the USA's actions in the west even though it's little

There was WAY more support for the Iraq war than for this

the main problem I have is 25 years later will it be looked back like the Iraq war is now looked down upon or will it be seen like how democrats and European liberals see Ronald Regan today ?

Before the War on Terror and 9/11, there was a low-level but constant drumbeat about Saddam Hussein, the Kurds, and atrocity porn. Like the Balkans and Hollywood's fascination with former Soviet nuclear scientists, it was the background radiation of the 90s that was sprinkled liberally in the news media. This background radiation would later be deliberately metastasized into justifications for the second Iraq invasion. WMDs evidence and justifications were built, in part, on a decade of talks about Kurds getting gassed and rampant media speculation that filled in the blanks from official reporting. 9/11 bloodthirst made Americans particularly uncritical about reprisals, like Afghanistan, but even that reaction was waning by the time the Iraq invasion was kicking off, hence the need for the WMD justifications.

The slow trickle of anti-Venezuela propaganda in particular rhymes with the second invasion of Iraq in the buildup. But I do think there are some differences:

• There isn't a parallel to 9/11 that will dramatically lower the threshold Americans were at during Iraq II.
• Little anti-Venezuela atrocity porn that would make for lurid television.
• The fresh memory of Iraq II and Afghanistan already leaves a great many with a particular distaste for foreign intervention; Viet-Nam Syndrom II: Electric Boogaloo
  • The administration has to bend-over-backwards to say it's not another Iraq

I can already tell this place is going to be one of the few bastions of sanity. I should probably make an account.

I mean I guess, idk. We'll see how much the media manufactures consent for this. Trump has two things going against him, he's very unpopular and most people do not want war/want the usa to stop meddling in other country's affairs. Like someone on here said (I forget who sorry) that the people of Venezuela don't drive americans into frothing rage like muslims did with 9/11. Add in the overall unpopularity of the Trump admin, maybe I'm speaking out my ass here, but I feel like intervention is going to be a hard sell?

Gonna have to push back gently on this one.

First and foremost, the post Al Aqsa Flood propaganda spewing from the genocide state was way more intense than anything I had ever felt. Much more overwhelming than the 9/11 or pre-2003 invasion propaganda. Could be I was just much older and more aware of the world around me, but in any case I’d say it was directly comparable.

Secondly, I am not a BurgerLander and don’t watch cable or MSM so maybe I am missing out on the fun consent-manufacturing here, but I get the impression that the Trump admin just isn’t really trying very hard to convince people. They’re just going to do whatever tf they want no matter what. Why do they care, the opinion of the public has never really impacted government policy anyway.

Correct me if I am wrong please.

We haven't gotten the country music ballad call to battle like we did back then

Yet

9/11 didnt just happen, there is just generally less raw material with which to manufacture consent. You've got the fact thar this is happening under Trump and the Cheeto in the Whitehouse Guys will oppose it just cause its trump doing it, if it were a dem they'd make excuses but it isn't so that's not relevant. Maduro is just like...harder to sell as a bad guy than Saddam cause Saddam was demonstrably a bad guy which makes for an easier sell. Also domestically it certainly ain't the early 2000s. No one has ny fucking money and we're being gouged left right and center regardless. America in general is way weaker and it's opposition way stronger than it was back then, those wars played a pretty major part of that. And also most people arent under the age of 30...just generally and remember last time quite well. You can fool some people all the time and you can fool everyone sometimes, but you cant fool everyone all the time. Some people will fall for it again, but it won't amount to even close to that fervor, we're all too tired. And for everyone else:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl7FKfl3O2Y&pp=

I remember how many of my high school friends were gung-ho about going to war and turning Afghanistan into a parking lot. How they were dreamy about their life story being turned into a movie later on. I do wonder how they're doing these days, and how many of them went the usual veteran suicide route. Dear veterans of USA, be the grown up you needed when you were young. This is one of your many moments. Don't just stand idly by and accept younglings telling you that they're thankful for your service. Save the future generation of the trauma you and your brothers and sisters went through.

There was almost no left during the war on terror. The european left was mostly what the american left of aoc and zohran types currently is while the american left basically didn't exist.

We are so much fucking stronger now it is difficult for me to get across just how different things are. Unless you were there and have watched things change you can't see it. We always talk about being powerless but I remember how things were and we had practically disappeared.

I was in my early 20s for 9/11, the Iraq war in particular was fucking wild as an Aussie. I remember the ABC reporting that something like 70% of Australians opposed our participation in the invasion of Iraq but we went in anyway.

Wonder if we'll be first in line again. What an I saying, of course we fucking will. The Aussie government never saw a brutal imperialist war of aggression it didn't get a massive erection for. If we didn't send soldiers over there to commit war crimes, who would we elect to parliament?!

Brace yourself.

agreed

Can confirm, am 31 going on 32. Shit sucked especially when young and ignorant. Was always anti war though. Wild to learn that Bush turned down getting those who were still alive that perpetrated 9/11 and went to launch an invasion, that later went into Iraq under false allegations of wmds...

Didn't you post this in 2023?

On Hexbear it appears a lot of the users are more apt to Liz themselves

I mean maybe I am old and my brain is just totally fried now. But I feel like the propaganda never stopped and just continued to get more and more unhinged and repressive after Papa Bush lost.