this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2025
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[–] Ranta@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago

The throughput and containment of the object is the criteria for classification here.

Can the object passing through the hole be contained by the medium of the object that is subject to the "hole" classification? If yes, then the object has two holes, one which the passing object passes through to enter the object, and one which is passed through to exit the object.

If the object passing through the object being classified cannot be contained entirely within the classification object medium, then the classification object has one hole.

This kind of classification relies upon the context of the item's usage, and is in fact a "contextually dependent" classification!

Take the straw for example:

When a straw is being used for drinking bubble tea, the straw has two holes when a boba is passing through. The straw has two holes for each ice crystal or clump of crystals that passes through.

Does the straw have two holes for a liquid? Good question! This is also a contextually dependent classification criteria, though this time it is a matter of reference frame! Do you consider a liqiud to be a macro expression of the fluid dynamics of the molecules comprising the medium? Then it is a whole, though I would suggest that the "whole" of the liquid in the container from which it is being drawn to be one "whole" and the liquid which is drawn into the straw during the vacuum action (from the initiation of the "pull" through to its conclusion) to be a new and unique "part" separated from the source volume and comprises a new "whole".

Ok, so NOW if the newly separated volume of liquid being drawn into the straw is less than the total volume of the straw, the straw has two holes (one hole being drawn upon, and one hole into which the newly created liquid volume is being drawn into.

Are you very thirsty? Have you drawn more liquid through the straw than the volume of the straw itself? You could then say the straw only had one hole for the duration of that pull!

On the other hand, if you are defining each molecule within the liquid medium to be its own object, then the straw always has two holes.

I don't personally subscribe to the notion that a straw is a single hole, since, in the abstract, my gut reaction is to define a hole as an absence of something, rather than a property of something else. Tools used to make holes (a shovel, an auger, a 3 hole punch, a gravitational singularity, etc.) all remove a part of the initial object, rather than "adding an absence" (ground media, paper circles, or the physical constants of dimensional spacetime, respectively).

Now that I'm thinking about it though, a straw is constructed by extrusion. The straw media is forced through a mold which defines the initial hole (the initially extruded straw media, which, as side note, is almost certainly trimmed to be cleanly cut to present as clean and uniform tip) and then subsequently, each straw would be severed at standard intervals to make the straw object. While considering this, I feel like it provides even more support for the "two hole argument" as each end of each straw must be independently and intentionally "formed" during the process of manufacturing.

Thoughts?

[–] gwilikers@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 hours ago (2 children)
[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 hours ago (1 children)
[–] piranhaconda@mander.xyz 13 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

There's a math joke I remember hearing ~10 years ago, I can't remember the whole thing, but it was something about a mathematician not being able to tell the difference between a coffee mug and a donut, they have the same number of holes so they're the same shape.

Edit:

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago

I also was also told once that since the nostrils and mouth are connected holes which lead to the asshole, humans are homotopic with fidget spinners.

[–] MumboJumbo@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago

It's what I identify as on Grindr

[–] y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Thinking about it, humans have one less hole than I would've guessed, since the tube from our mouth to our anus sort of makes us a complicated straw.

[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 11 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The human body is just a series of tubes.

[–] y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 14 hours ago

The internet and I have that in common, I guess.

[–] Crankenstein@lemmy.world 93 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is one of those "if you cut a hole in a net, it then has less holes than before" type arguments and I'm all here for it.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I think it would still techically be more hole since a larger total area would be hole.

I would be fewer holes, though.

But there’s more hole per hole

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 34 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

One of my friends is a Taurus as well. He's a car.

[–] madjo@feddit.nl 19 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

How many holes does he have?

[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 14 points 20 hours ago

At least 5. I'm unwilling to do a more thorough count, tho.

[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 28 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

The average person is a straw.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 53 points 23 hours ago

This is a strawman argument.

[–] trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 13 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Not really, they're some sort of tube, but they don't classify as straws

[–] madjo@feddit.nl 17 points 22 hours ago (1 children)
[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 7 points 15 hours ago (1 children)
[–] madjo@feddit.nl 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Yes! You can call me.... The lawnmower man!

(I'm seriously dating myself with that reference)

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 7 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

I remember thinking this was top notch graphics in 1992.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago

It was uncanny and disturbing back then. It's uncanny, disturbing, and hilarious now.

[–] einlander@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago (2 children)

A circle is a plane folded on itself so the answer is technically 0 holes. But first what is a hole?

[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 16 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

a sphere is a plane folded in on itself, and spheres have no (one-dimensional) holes. but spheres do have a two-dimensional hole, which is basically a way of saying they’re hollow.

a circle is a line folded in on itself, and circles have one (one-dimensional) hole.

edit: the claim that circles and straws are homotopic is basically a fancy way of saying: “if you place a straw upright on a table and flatten it by smashing your hand down on it, you will end up with a circle.”

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 11 points 22 hours ago
[–] Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 11 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

How about a pair of jeans?

If anyone wants to see an entertaining mathematician talk about this exact topic for 30 minutes, here you go:

https://youtu.be/ymF1bp-qrjU

[–] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago

And here's Michael from VSauce talking about the topic:

https://youtu.be/egEraZP9yXQ

[–] allywilson@lemmy.ml 8 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Reminds me of the old "Are there more doors or wheels in the world?" question

[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 18 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Definitely wheels. All that machinery with wheels for the belts, all transportation, toys, ... I can't fathom there being as many doors.

Unless I'm wooshed :D

[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

Depends on how broadly you define door. When you think about it, a transistor could be considered as a sort of door for electrons, for example, and there are 19 billion transistors in the processor of an iPhone

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 0 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

A lot of transportation has an equivalent amount of doors, and there a lot of house, apartment buildings, offices... You use a lot more doors every day than you do wheels.

[–] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Not even close; even an electric car has far more wheels than doors. Every rotating mechanism is made up of wheels, some geared others with groves for belts to run in.

Even just considering the ones that you see, there are tires and hubs which (for a car) means there are 8 wheels and only 4 or 5 doors. You could count the bonnet (hood) as a door and make it 6.

But there are hundreds of wheels, thousands in an ICE vehicle.

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago

A gear is not a wheel. That's why it's called a "gear" and a "wheel".

[–] madjo@feddit.nl 5 points 22 hours ago

The answer is "yes".

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Deathray5@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

What size does a hole need to be to be a hole

[–] addie@feddit.uk 4 points 17 hours ago

Twice as big as half a hole, obviously.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 7 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

In theory, the smallest hole possible would be a ring of atoms combined into a molecule with an empty center

[–] match@pawb.social 11 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

benzene got that nanopussy

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 7 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

That is one way of putting it, a bit crude though....

[–] Deathray5@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 14 hours ago

I imagine you with a monocle and a top hat

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

S¹ × [0, L]

~~I don't understand why a circle has one/a hole though.~~ I don't even know what a hole is.

Edit: Ok, circles might not have holes, they have interiors?

Make sure you're distinguishing between a circle and a disc.

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 4 points 21 hours ago

What specifically constitutes a hole is somewhat ambiguous, but if you pull on the thread a bit, you'll probably agree that it's a topological quality and that homotopy groups and homology are good candidates. The most grounded way to approach the topic is with simplicial homology.

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