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They did it once, then did it again and not only is it still just a fine, the fine didn't even go up. Given inflation since then, the fine actually went down in real terms.
That'll teach them for sure! /s
"You have to put over $400 million of your own money and launder it back around into the safety department of your own company"
That'll teach em.
Boeing made $76B in revenue in 2023. This is slightly more than 1 day's revenue for them ($210M / day) or a bit more than 10 days profit for them ($21M / day). They will keep doing what they're doing, but increase their spending on a PR campaign to improve their public image.
They will keep doing what they’re doing
Wrong.
This plea deal helps them quantify the cost of safety lapses, which they didn't have before. Now they know that they'll only get fined a tiny bit, they know that it'll be worth it to cut further corners if that helps them sell maybe 5-10 more planes in total.
Just part of the cost of doing business.
Exactly. This is like if you charged the average person $1 for causing a major motorway accident.
It's a joke of a fine in the face of Boeing's profits - basically telling them they can get away with severe and wreckless disregard for human life in return for just over a week's profits.
If my maths is right that works out to just over 48 minutes of profit per person killed...
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“In a major win for the DOJ Boeing has agreed to a plea deal to avoid a criminal trial. As part of the deal Boeing agreed to a slap on the wrist after which they will be legally required to admit to being very naughty before they can resume committing crimes.”
If you were I were to commit criminal fraud, we would go to prison. Why is it that a corporation, which is also considered to be a person, does not need to do something as life-altering?
It's insane. Of course we can't just jail a corporation and just shutting them down forcibly would cause more problems than it solves, but really that fine needs to be at least 50 times as high. Probably 100 times. Something that hurts, a lot. Not enough to outright bankrupt them, but enough to do that if it happens again any time soon. Their yearly revenue is 72 billion. This is the equivalent of someone making 50k a year paying a $200 fine for gross negligience that killed people. What the fuck?
Jail the executives and/or apply the fine to them. They are ultimately the ones that pushed this culture to happen, and as they say "the buck stops here".
Wishful thinking, I know. It would never happen in real life.
It may never happen but don't give up on the fact that it could happen. We make up what is the collective consciousness of all civilization. Just as we thought pot would never be legal there was enough people who said it should be. One day you might wake up and the work we did in shaming the owner class, the robber barons, will be a reality.
I don't think a fine is an appropriate result. Any amount of money paid to the government is not going to get those people back, it's not going to fix Boeing's workplace culture, it's just going to drive them to cut more corners to recoup the cost of the fine.
Clearly, they can't be trusted to run their own QC operation in an industry where a few missed bolts leads to the violent deaths of hundreds of people. The "punishment" should be the creation of a QC and safety team that is accountable to the American people, which is paid for directly by Boeing. This team is financially liable for Boeing's mistakes, and picks a fee based on how well boeing is passing QCs and inspections. Most importantly, Boeing's C-suite is not allowed to privately communicate with this team.
Accountability should be the "punishment."
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I suggest a federal agency become lone shareholder and criminal charges be filed against board members
So a bribe so nobody goes to jail...
Pretty much.
America really loves protecting those upper management from taking responsibility!
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My god is the DOJ going to pay the bar tab for Boeing's team too?
They killed hundreds of people by lying and then got caught lying some more. Over and over we're told that if there was ever any actual criminality it would pierce the corporate veil. So either that was bullshit or the DOJ is incompetent or unwilling to go after these murderers the same way they do other organized crime.
It's time to make the existence of Corporations a campaign issue. If they aren't doing anything wrong then they don't need the shield right?
I liked it better when large corps could go dark practically overnight, e.g. Enron. Andersen, et al.
And then the concept of "too big to fail" was born.
Too big to fail means too big to exist, you're a defacto monopoly and need to be broken apart if you're too big to fail.
Does duopoly count, the only competitor is Airbus
Being monopolistic does not mean you have no competitors, but that you are big enough to adversely affect the free market so that you can't be competed with.
So yeah, it counts, and so does Apple for example.
More specifically, the government got Enron but the PR campaign waged by corporate lobbyists is directly responsible for the milquetoast prosecutions since then. They actually got a majority of Americans to believe the government was at fault for people losing their jobs and pensions. The pensions that were already embezzled. And the jobs that were already getting cut because the embezzling was starting in on the corporation.
What a sick joke our DOJ is.
And the mysterious deaths of the whistleblowers? Did they get to plead that away too?
Well that's fine. It's not as if anyone died.
Oh wait...
This is an absolute god damn failure. Merrick Garland is a spineless, neutered, impotent, milquetoast, coward and that's exactly how history should remember him.
That's exactly what he was hired to be. You don't blame the main course if you don't like what's for dinner.
Rather than hanging on your inference, please just say what you are trying to say here?
What I said was in the first sentence. Biden named him attorney general precisely for his milquetoast qualities. He didn't want anyone controversial - someone who might get some real shit done.
So to be completely blunt, Biden is the reason we have an attorney general with no teeth. I actually think Biden has been a great President overall, but that decision was one I disagreed thoroughly with.
He was originally nominated for SCOTUS by Obama to be that centrist pick.
But he was hired by Biden as AG after having that opportunity permanent denied him, embarrassingly and publicly, with the thought being that he'd be ready to pursue the types of people that used his legacy as a pawn with vigor. When he was nominated, general thought back then was that he may be ready to pursue his work with more intention as a result of what had transgressed.
If not for the Obama nomination and SCOTUS denial I would agree with you, but there was supposed to be more to him after having endured the gop's horseshit, when in any other time in our history he would have just been a rubber stamp approval. Garland probably would have been a good Supreme Court Justice for the same reasons he's a horrible failure as AG.
Garland probably would have been a good Supreme Court Justice for the same reasons he's a horrible failure as AG.
On that we are in complete agreement.
Pleading to avoid criminal charges regarding cases where people died should not be a thing...
Corporations are not people when it's convenient
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Are we filing charges against sock puppets named Boeing? Who is the man in charge? Over three hundred people are dead. Those families deserve justice, not whatever this is.
In the US the corporation acts as a legal shield, except in criminal cases. The fact that the DOJ hasn't ripped that shield away and stuck a probe up their ass tells you everything you need to know about how true my first sentence is. Despite hearing it ad nauseum every time something like the Ohio train crash happens.
No more too big to fail companies
Damn, I wish I could commit felony fraud and get off with just a fine.
Although, doesn't the government usually prefer to not work with convicted felons? Does this mean they'll prefer other companies for contracts, etc.?
We'd need to actually have an aviation market instead of (checks notes) two corporations.
One. Airbus is foreign competition, just like the Chinese company that now is entering the market.
The US govt will not buy Airbus over Boeing, and will not let airlines overwhelmingly switch to it either.
We don't need Boeing for for passenger jets. We need them for, well let's just roll out the list.
- AH-64
- CH-47
- V-22
- F-15
- F-18
- C-17
- KC-46
- T-7
And I'm getting tired of copying things from their Wikipedia. It goes on into drones and missiles too. So this isn't about the foreign competition, it's about keeping a part of our defense industry marginally competitive with Boeing and Lockheed both kicking around.
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The system is broken
The system is working perfectly as intended.
Saw it coming. This article could almost be a re post
Boeing killed John Barnett
The people who need to be held accountable, won't be. They'll continue to live in lavish luxury without any repercussions.
It's a big club, and you ain't in it.
~~flattery~~ defense contracts will get you everywhere!
Now what. They going to fake jail like Orange Hitler.
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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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