porn didn't create any incels, people who have no sex education or 'visualisation' still have the social expectations of patriarchy. 'internet porn' largely coincides with the long-run alienation trends of the last decades, it's a relatively unimportant part compared to economic outlooks and social isolation.

Also, I’m too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels?

Some effect, but likely a negligible one. Most dudes of childrearing age, cause I'm not gonna sit here and act like they're all fathers even if they sired a child-- most dudes won't cop to it, but Gen Xers and boomers are where this started. They taught their boys a very specific way that offshot of the way they acted, even if what they SAID ran contrary. It's what their fathers did that these incels want to emulate, not what they said.

I'm speaking from personal experience here; because I was once very much the same way. One bad relationship with a cheat had me misogynistic as fuck at one point in my life; and what I fell back on was all of the maladaptive, machismo-type bullshit my father lived by. "Never let a hoe fuck with your money", "never trust a hoe with your feelings", the whole nine-- and this experience is what kind of. I might verbally john on incels every so often, but I consider it genuinely tragic because they were maladaptively socialized for a society that is quite literally disintegrating in real time.

tl;dr I think it might tweak the dynamics of the incel/manosphere, but not in a way that'd undo the phenomenon. If anything, you're gonna see more Andrew Tate-alikes who talk about porn and masturbation being mentally or spiritually crippling, but still keep up all the regressive misogyny if not stronger because dollars-to-donuts says they'll just default to "blame women" for why the porn is gone. (Despite all their slagging of OnlyFans models.)

The prevalence of the male incel identity coincides with sexual harassment becoming less socially acceptable.

That's the main part of it. It's the shadow of lingering social misogyny trying to reassert itself through the very real phemenons of alienation and loneliness.

Doesn’t mean it should be illegal tho

I would at least ban porn networks, since they are nothing more than socially accepted pimping.

Also, I'm too young to know the answer to this, but what effect do we think internet porn has had on spawning a generation of incels? Idk what the pre-porn incel market was like.

idk, I think it's hard to separate the effects of internet porn from the effects of the internet in general. i think regular ol' internet forums (some of which host porn but not necessarily as the main focus) are the biggest factor in the proliferation of "incel" mindsets / identities. you know, before the internet if you were somebody who can't get laid, you'd maybe talk to your friends about it and get encouragement or advice, or talk to family, or just be sad basically. the chances of you independently coming to the conclusion that there's something about you that makes you completely unlovable (maybe even to absurdly specific degrees, such as that you will never be able to get laid because your wrists are too narrow) and that the problem will never ever get better and that all women are unthinking evil creatures who want unlovable men like you to die so they never have to be reminded that anyone but exists... are pretty slim. nobody comes up with those kinds of ideas on their own, that requires insular groups that take time feeding each other's frustrations and insecurities and slowly building up a mythology. if you dont have access to the internet, you're going to have to discuss your difficult love life with someone who can get laid. but incel internet forums provide an extremely unhealthy outlet for those frustrations that don't involve ever talking to someone who can get laid.

I also don't think internet porn is significantly more harmful than the good ol' magazines and VHS tapes and whatever that we had before. though, one way in that it is obviously more harmful is in the sheer availability. if you've got a dirty magazine you've got, you know, one magazine of porn. if you've got a smartphone you've got more porn than you could ever desire to look at in a hundred lifetimes. and if you're a kid, you at least have to hide a dirty magazine. teens these days have basically no risk of being caught being addicted to (even extremely niche) pornography. i think that's gonna be the biggest effect of internet porn for the next few generations. when millennials (and anyone older) were growing up, their experience with porn, if any, was maybe a few dirty magazines where they could look at some tits. now kids are growing up totally addicted to enormous amounts of wild, hardcore porn.

i generally agree with you that porn is bad. by volume, anyway. like 99.999% of all porn is bad for a wide variety of reasons. I think it's possible to make porn ethically. Very difficult unless there are no humans involved (like with drawings or pure writing), and even then it's still possible to do it unethically (sexualizing children still sucks even if there are no real kids involved, for example)

I do think that the 99.999% of porn I'm talking about should be illegal, though.

This is the actual end goal. Force the entire LGBT community into the closet.

Yes, an exceptionally high percentage of sex workers today are wage slaves and worse, coercion is the norm today. But to reduce all porn production to 'unacceptable labor' is not a reasonable conclusion either.

Free of financial coercion, some non-negligible amount of people would still choose to do sex work. Sexuality is a normal, healthy, human trait, and there are plenty healthy ways to engage with it.

we don't live in a communist world and the movement to legislate-it-out-of-existence from the right without solving any of the economic/social cleavages that put people into sex work is just going to escalate the criminal character & make it more dangerous for workers

i think in the idyllic after-the-revolution there wouldn't even be a demand for porn production: with the elimination of IP, just go around and obtain consent forms from whichever former performers don't mind it being out there, & there'd instantly be a huger library of available pornography than anyone could countenance under capitalism. the industry thrives on artificial scarcity and ephemeral availability, but there's nothing fundamentally new

But would a communist utopia have horny fanart of Sonic the Hedgehog

A lot of "x wouldn't exist under communism discourse" seems to stem from x thing being a modern invention. Communist writers didn't write about porn because filmed porn didn't really exist until the late 1960s. Movies and television as we know it didn't exist before the late 1960s either.

What you wrote also applies to acting and film making in general. You could substitute "pornography" with "movies and television" and it would be effectively just as true. Are there actors who don't like to act but do it anyways because they are promised fame and fortune? Do people who have suffered traumatic events watch films and television to dissociate from their lives? Have the producers of hollywood movies and television engaged in acts of human trafficking? Have feminists debated the inherent oppressive conditions of film production, acting, television and movies under a patriarchal and capitalist world? The answer to all of these questions is yes but we wouldn't say that communism will legislate movies and television out of existence.

Project 2025 will most definitely turn into 2029 which will turn into 2033 and so and so on.

Just keep voting blue guys. Don't worry about the genocide, police brutality, asylum ban, banning apps because people on it support Palestine etc. No matter how bad Biden is, project 2025+4+4+4+4+4 is worse

This! This will happen

Oh look, a user

You can tell because they've been trying to scare everybody with project 2025 for a year but if you ask them what their plan is if they win they'll just look at you confused and say they aren't Trump.

What are we, a bunch of ~~asians~~ ~~muslism~~ asians??

If you start believing in them the porn fae will return to the mortal realm and leave a copy of juggs in the woods.

I'll be your most loyal customer — I've got a thing for getting fucked in every way, including financially!

/altjoke A "porn speakeasy"? Surely that would be a "moaneasy", right?