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submitted 6 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Transgender Catholics — as well as a priest who welcomes them to his parish — expressed disappointment Monday with a new Vatican document rejecting the fundamental concept of changing one’s biological sex.

In essence, it was a restatement of longstanding Catholic teaching, but the dismay was heightened because recent moves by Pope Francis had encouraged some trans Catholics to hope the church might become more accepting.

The pope has welcomed a community of transgender women to his weekly general audiences. And last year, the Vatican said it’s permissible, under certain circumstances, for trans people to be baptized as Catholics and serve as godparents.

“A document like this is very hurtful to the larger LGBTQ+ community but especially to the trans community,” said Maxwell Kuzma, 32, a lifelong Catholic transgender man working as a film editor and writer in rural Ohio.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 68 points 6 months ago

The Vatican document was compiled by a committee of celibate feudal lords wearing archaic robes and signed and endorsed by their celibate king, wearing his silly hat in his magnificent palace, and declaring it all to be the direct word of their god.

I don't think they understand anyone's lives.

Have you seen who guards the Pope? These are not people who live in the real world.

[-] strawberry@kbin.run 24 points 6 months ago

lmao that is a group of the goofiest looking people I have ever seen

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

Goofy, but they train with small arms. To be fair, they do dress in plain clothes when outside the Vatican, but it still shows how divorced from everything they all are, because a lot of the church hierarchy in the Vatican stay there for life.

[-] BakerBagel@midwest.social 4 points 6 months ago

I do kinda wish that any military groups keep the same style of dress uniforms from when the regiment was created. The UK does this a little but it would be great seeing a hodgepodge of US regiments looking like Theodore Roosevelt's Roughnecks next to guys in Civil War looking outfits and WWII kit. We still dress people in goofy robes for college and hugh school graduation, so why not the army?

[-] strawberry@kbin.run 3 points 6 months ago

surprising that they dont use swords

[-] toastus@feddit.de 10 points 6 months ago

You will be happy to hear they still use halberds instead.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Mmmm halberds. Slicey.

[-] Triteer@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Technically, I think they're called voulges.

[-] toastus@feddit.de 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I am by no means am expert.
I just went of this:

The halberd is still the ceremonial weapon of the Swiss Guard in the Vatican.

And I am pretty sure that in German they call the weapon of the Swiss Guard Hellebarde.

[-] griD@feddit.de 1 points 6 months ago

Took long enough for an Archer reference ITT. Thanks.

[-] Iapar@feddit.de 7 points 6 months ago

If a clowncar was a state...

[-] crusa187@lemmy.ml 5 points 6 months ago

lol this is an amazing picture, thank you

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

The man who is supposed to be closest to god needs guards to protect him and is driven around in a bullet proof popemobile.

[-] Poayjay@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

It’s weird seeing a picture of the pope where he doesn’t have the silliest hat.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

This pope only wears a slightly silly hat.

[-] whodatdair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 6 months ago

If someone told me this image was AI i would believe them

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

OH-EE-OH, YO-OH!

[-] Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 6 months ago

declaring it all to be the direct word of their god.

I'm not going to try to defend this any further than to say they're not claiming it's the "direct word of god" or anything. They claim it's their interpretation, and that their interpretation is definitely right, which is probably worse.

[-] lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world 61 points 6 months ago

"I never thought the leopards would eat my face!"

[-] candybrie@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Ah yeah, the trans community. Totally didn't already know they were generally not accepted by Abrahamic religions. Weren't just given a tiny glimmer of hope to desperately hang on to that they might be accepted. Also are Catholic because Catholicism hurts the right people.

[-] LillyPip@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Religion is a helluva drug.

[-] urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 months ago

…don’t you think this is a little dismissive? Maybe I’m wrong but most people are catholic because they were raised that way.

It sure would suck if something I had no control over excluded me from my own culture/religion/family. In fact, if I found myself in that situation, the right thing to do would be to make changes, if I could, for other people like me and those people’s families.

By the way, I do think religion as an institution sucks. But, I don’t think these people are supporting face-eating leopards. These people live in the jungle already, their choice is to leave or fight leopards.

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

"I was raised that way" is an excuse that holds no water. Trans people were raised to believe that they were their sex assigned at birth and they came to the conclusion that that didnt fit them. They can re-evaluate other beliefs just the same.

[-] Traister101@lemmy.today 1 points 6 months ago

They were born into a family who supports face eating leopards. That sucks! But now as an adult they've continued to support the face eating leopards. Sure being indoctrinated into a religion is a tough thing to break out of... but when you are being attacked by the very people who indoctrinated you it should rapidly become obvious they don't have your best interest at heart.

[-] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 54 points 6 months ago

Alternate headline: "Transgender catholics show no understanding of their religion."

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

To be fair (🎵to be faiiiiiiiiiirr . . ) Jesus never said anything about trans people, and the Talmud (which Jesus was ostensibly a big fan of) has eight - count 'em eight - specific genders already specified and ready to go.

So really it's the Catholic Church who's not understanding - very possibly intentionally. But there we go. SSDD.

FWIW I think Francis got a good old fashioned political situation handed to him and, for whatever it was worth to him, caved.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago
[-] root_beer@midwest.social 3 points 6 months ago

That seems like a pretty definitive mic drop on the matter

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

But they're choosing to follow the Catholic Church by being Catholic, so the point still stands.

[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Not to say that the life view of any ancient peoples are wholy applicable to modern life but holy shit based

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

But... they're all in dresses all the time!

[-] gimpchrist@lemmy.world 36 points 6 months ago

Man... this is like a black person trying to be a legitimate member of the kkk... '....but I believe in most of the same things as you guys! Why do you guys want to lynch me too?! I'm so confused!!!'

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 17 points 6 months ago

You mean the Republican Party?

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[-] ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 6 months ago

I know Dave Chapelle is a shithead now, but I can't help but think of the Chapelle Show sketch about the blind black Klansman who doesn't know he's black.

[-] mycathas9lives@mastodon.social 12 points 6 months ago

@ImADifferentBird @gimpchrist

Kanye West is an openly black white supremacist and he is not the first. The first openly black white supremacist was a person named William Hannibal Thomas, who wrote The American Negro in 1901, a loathsome work that was so derogatory towards blacks that white supremacists of that time used his writings to support their claims about the inferiority of blacks.

[-] ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 6 months ago

Didn't know about WH Thomas. History is full of strange people, I suppose.

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[-] Silentiea@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 6 months ago

I mean I guess the difference is that the stated goal of the KKK is white supremacy, while the stated goal of the Catholic Church certainly isn't cis-hetero-normativity. That's just a fun side product.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

"Trans Member of Conservative Group Shocked by Mistreatment of Trans People"

[-] Retrograde@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

It would seem that the face eating leopards are very inclusive and will eat your face regardless of what you identify as

[-] xkforce@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

I will never understand how LGBTQIA people can remain religious after reading the bible. It literally tells people to stone you to death with big fucking rocks.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Or women picking and choosing what parts of the Old Testament to use as weapons against others

At least straight men could be argued to have self interest involved, but even then it's absurd what rules it sets.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that the people who live in their own religious state that is walled off from the world and has been there for a thousand years don't have an understanding of the lives of modern people.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Very nice art though. Some of the best, really.

[-] TK420@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Oh fuck the pope

[-] stanleytweedle@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

I completely get how LGBTQ people are drawn to Jesus' message of peace and forgiveness so I can see why they'd want to be included in 'Christianity', but I don't get why they'd care about being Catholic.

If you're raised Catholic and think that's the only way into heaven and then find out that way doesn't include you- maybe rethink the initial assumption.

[-] Rykzon@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 6 months ago

It's pretty easy, they should just create some sort of conversion therapy, it's not like you are born like that and there is 0 biological reason or proof for that sort of condition. I mean it's pretty easy to choose any other spiritual outlet or meaning to life than religion.

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this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2024
198 points (93.0% liked)

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