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This post is technically against the "no politics"-rule, but it's a reasonable question that can be asked in a vacuum.
Please keep the comments centered away from the political side of things, especially the orange one - Let's assume OP is worried that Jill Stein is on track to winning 2028.
Stay classy.
EDIT: Downvoted by Jill Stein and her only supporter
I posted about how Jill Stein ran just to be a distraction and some Lemmy commenters defended her. I'd tag them right now if harassment wasn't a bannable offense because fuck them.
jill stein and rfk jr was the distraction, they conveniently got about 1million votes each. but its likely they siphoned republicans mostly.
I would, personally. I am not white. I am relatively well off. I still believe I am generally fucked.
I would leave last year but there are some family and job issues. However, I have two avenues to two countries and plan to exercise one of them within a year if still possible.
If I could do it today, I would.
Canadian here. I know several people from the U.S. who have moved here. First of all, it's not easy. Canada immigration doesn't see Americans as any more desirable than other similar countries. It's a system of points. Some things that increase points are: skills, education, knowledge of English, probability that you will stay. Let me also say that the people I know find Canada a mixed bag. You probably don't realize it, but you probably have a huge American identity. Being in a place with a different culture and mindset brings out those sentiments, especially when the people around you are trash talking the way the U.S. is treating us. Realize that we legally have a lot less personal rights and more group rights. Realize we have systems that you would consider socialist and probably have different interest in sports, politeness, and the world. Having said that, most peoplewho have moved here enjoy the more easy-going style, the greater social safety net, and the reduction in fear. Some I've talked to have said this was the biggest thing that hit them. In the U.S., they unconsciously carried an inner fear that was not apparent in Canada. I'm not trying to encourage or discourage you. Just know, it's probably gonna be different than you expect it.
sorry for the reddit-link, but there's jo equivalent here on lemmy
if your actually serious about this, i suggest you be honest to yourself about your ability/willingness to leave family behind and more importantly your personal prospects/ability.
immigrating to another country isnt so easy (unless you have the $ for investment citizenship) especially the ones the average american generally consider first. they are selective about who they let in unless it's under some kind of emergency/refugee provision (which...if the US really does fall into civil war, might actually be available for people from the US)
I am someone born in the USA and white and male, so I am less at risk of harassment and brutality than others.
What a terrible error to think this way :-(
I have to link a quote from Martin Niemöller here. Please think about it, and maybe read more about him.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller#%E2%80%9EHabe_ich_geschwiegen%E2%80%9C
He clearly did not say he was not at risk but less so - which totally falls within Niemöller and os absolutely correct.
Dems are just enabling because they need political ammo to use to get re-elected, thats why they have been voting with the gop, dont fall for it, also the fact they are protecting Dems that are up for primaries as well.
do you have lots of money, do you have speciality like in MD or PHD , other than that ita quite difficult to immigrate.
I don't think you're overreacting given that a white male was just shot, as a protester, in cold blood just minutes ago.
Yeah, they shot that white lady the other day as well and, even though America is heavily misogynistic and ICE members are most likely even more so, the signs are there. The American empire is collapsing, if things were bad before (and they were, I've seen some videos of your cities, they're abandoned or basically Sodom and Gomorrah but with more fent) you don't wanna stay for what's coming next. I mean, y'all got Gestapo over there and billions were recently passed in funding. Billions. If you don't move you either join ICE and enjoy some privileges, kinda like veterans in the US did, before going to Hell as you should, or you suffer what's coming.
As an American-born white male, I'm staying. If all the sane people flee the country, what does that leave behind? A bunch of right wing whack jobs with the biggest military in the world. You think our domestic problems are going to stay domestic? If we don't stay and stand up to this, it's going to spread worldwide anyway.
Not saying to not get your ducks in a row just in case, but I don't think running is going to save you for very long. If there's going to be a civil war, I'd rather our side actually have soldiers.
its not likely to change if all the intellectuals stayed, they all left or leaving already. they are usually the first to be persecuted by fascist govts, if they had the knack to earn a grad degree they are smart enough to know it will get worst if they stayed, plus funding for research have mostly been in jeoparday for a while.
I previously tried to commit suicide when I was younger and was involuntarily hospitalized. As a result I'm a prohibited person. I can't legally buy a firearm. This makes it harder for me to protect myself if things get worse. I don't know if voting in my liberal community is going to change anything.
I’m a white disabled trans woman, and I’m fuckin’ staying. Although it’s only a matter of time before the federal ungovernment turns its attention to my city, Portland, to leave would be to give up my home, and the only place I have known for an incredibly long time.
I will die eventually. That much is the only thing that’s true for me. My wave will move on to being just water somewhere else. Ideally, under peaceful circumstances. But it will happen here most likely.
I have friends to defend and friends to help, and they need help here.
Stay the course, and stay safe. The PacNW might be one of the last places to stand against this chaos, and the community needs you. 🖖🏽✊🏼🤙🏽
There won't be no war, it'll be a coup. Several weeks of martial law while the army decides where it stands. Than it will be over. So unless you are on the front lines you'll be fine.
That only works if the army stays united as a single power block and does not split.
No, there is always top dog in every coup. There won't be navy vs army or whatever. You are either on the team or in the jail.
If you do decide to go (and I can certainly see why you would), you definitely shouldn't try to apply for asylum, but get a proper work visa for your country of choice. No country currently accepts asylum applications from Americans as far as I'm aware, certainly nowhere in Europe. And even if you somehow managed to do that, coming here as a refugee is no pleasant experience. You'd spend at least a couple months living in poor, very crammed conditions among people from countries where homophobia is much more widespread than in the US.
If I ever decide to leave Europe, my plan was always to go to New Zealand. Seems like a good place to escape global geopolitics and/or a possible WW3.
No country currently accepts asylum applications from Americans as far as I’m aware
There are a few (as in single digits, like for example Holly Collins in the Netherlands ) in Western Europe and Canada, but they are truly exceptional cases, based on very specific individual circumstances.
The courts in Canada and Netherlands are also considering a few requests from transgender Americans instead of throwing them out immediatly, so the situation might change for trans people, especially if the governments decide that they are done appeasing Trump.
Worldwide there were slightly less than 400 accepted american refugees in 2021.
Yes
The comments here are ridiculous, in the grand scheme of things our lives are but insignificant blips in time, our borders and laws are made up constructs, and you have free will. Stay and rebel, use your life to help others and fight this injustice, or cherish and protect the time you have and flee. There is no right answer.
If you stay arm yourself and start coming to terms with the fact that you might have to fight and you might die, if you go understand it's not gonna be easy, you are gonna have to learn to navigate a lot of bureaucracy that is unknown to you with no guarantees but 25k is enough to start a life a new, possibly even pay someone to marry you for citizenship in certain places.
That being said, the world is coming to a breaking point, we are destroying the planet, most of the world operates off of this concept of endless growth and consumption and above all rewarding greed and taking advantage of others, society needs to find a way to reward the altruistic and ways to live sustainably. Our resources like fresh water, oil, and food are bound too become more scarce and this fight is coming for everyone, everywhere.
I wish you the best of luck, I'm also at this crossroads and don't know what I'm going to do, luckily I love life, love learning, and I'm always having fun, I also have high demand skills but also I've lived a good and full life and if I die fighting for the world I want, maybe that's not so bad of a way to go. Once again, there is no right answer, do what you think is best.
I don't really have a "solution" for you I'm sorry.
FWIW, I'm absolutely sympathetic to your situation. I just can't imagine how this would feel.
To me, Canada sounds like a quick and easy option, but I don't know what the migration options there are like.
$25k USD is probably enough money to outlive Trump living a modest lifestyle in South East Asia.
It's interesting that the comments here are somewhat split between "leave" and "stay and fight". I honestly don't know which way I'd go. Basically I try to have courage to change the things I can, and acceptance to live with the things I can't. It seems like the US is really cooked. I'm sorry to sound like an ass but from where I'm standing, the current protests are just pitiful, no where near what it will take to change trajectory. Like "the people" could maybe change things but one person can't, and there aren't enough others.
OP mentioned they have a criminal record. Canada is notoriously difficult to enter if you have a record (e.g., a single DUI on your record means you're barred for life from entering Canada). Canada also prioritizes skilled migrants and a lot of Americans don't meet the cutoff.
I'll leave for Europe (dual citizen) when things get bad enough. For all the horrible news coming out of Minneapolis, nothing really has changed locally where I live (major metro area, very progressive) and I've seen no ICE/CBP raids. I understand why some want to stay and fight, but taking up arms against our military is a death wish and this country isn't worth dying for.
I agree that for OP the SE Asia route might be the best. They should get a passport ASAP if they don't have one, and get any US university degrees converted to their foreign equivalents.
You could try Alaska for a few years. Theres very few law enforcement in general, and the culture is one of people sort of minding their own business. Any law enforcement effort there will be deemed not worth the cost when theres so few people. Jobs might be scarce.
On the flip side pretty rural and homophobic...
By the time the majority realizes they should leave, it’ll be too late. That’s just how authoritarianism works.
I am conflicted myself, but keep in mind why they are doing this. They know they lost the future generations and can’t win them back. Democrats have a massive majority of millennials and gen-z. These people are making their final power plays from their retirement homes and sick beds. We have decades to fix what they broke and make something new.
There are struggles with leaving. There are struggles with staying. You’re not wrong to leave if you can, but I think there’s a case for staying.
most of the intellectuals(MDs, PHDs) fled early on, and the rich people, everyone is pretty much on thier own.
If you want to go to Europe, don't apply for asylum. This has no chance of succeeding, even for people from war-torn countries with ongoing genocides it is difficult.
The easiest way is to apply for a study visa. There are many EU countries with very good education, very low requirements for admission, and very low (or even no) tuition fees, even for non-EU students. Once you have a degree, you are anchored and can find a job and get citizenship without too much difficulty.
The alternative is to apply for a job. In this case you need some marketable skill that is difficult to find among the locals.
wonder how hard if you already have degree in stem, but no experience in that field(resume) and not a graduate degree.
I was already out of the country during... the last time bad event happened... and I decided to stick it out and build a new life and get a permanent residence in case things did not improve. And then they didn't. I just managed to get my permanent residence right before... the current time bad event happened (2024).
The simplest thing I can say is, I don't regret the decision. I gave up a lot on the journey to my new life, but what I gained is knowledge and understanding of just how much crap you don't actually have to put up with... how much you SHOULDN'T have to put up with. Some things are worse, sure, but so much has been better for me as well... but one of the big problems I didn't think about is, the survivor's guilt is real. For what it's worth, I don't think in absolute terms there's any shame in fleeing. A nation is a societal construct in the first place, and I don't think you particularly owe anything to the nation you happen to be born in, especially one that shows such utter contempt for its citizens on a daily basis. But the people you know and care about... and the innocent people that don't have the opportunity you do to do the same... leaving them there leaves a wound, even when you KNOW deep down there is very little you can do personally by virtue of suffering through it with them. I know ultimately, my being here means I no longer pay taxes to support a US government that does heinous things... I no longer work for a company that actively makes the world worse... and I still vote from here, still support those that I believe in to help see change in the system... and I use that as a salve, but the simple reality is I don't get to be here with a clear conscience. It's a weakness, and I feel selfish for the choice I made. I don't know anything about you - perhaps none of this is an issue for you, and I'm not saying it should be, but if you know your own conscience to be prone to this kind of thinking, it is something you should also consider.
As a German I had to learn about German history and the workings of fascism in great detail. With that in mind the outlook for the US is grim. I personally would strongly consider leaving given the unfolding situation. Ask yourself whether you are prepared to live your life in a fully authoritarian US society, where there is only a very limited rule of law, power is largely unconstrained at every level and violence just a part of daily life. Are you the type to flourish in a system comparable to today's Russia? Because of you don't flourish, you will suffer, there will be no middle ground.
the USA becoming russia 2.0 is decades in the making, ironically funded by russia for that long(through the gop and propaganda), and the general bipolar attitude towards ukraine.
Germany is currently my top choice. I've been struggling with beginning the process of learning the language but found the VHS course/apps today and had an Anki card deck I finally looked at this week. Job hunting is tough. Engineer with 1.5 years of experience is a touch too entry-level it seems. Studying for a Master's is on the table too, but there's a lot of moving parts regardless of what route I take. Wish me luck.
I am someone born in the USA and white and male, so I am less at risk of harassment and brutality than others.
Depends on your wealth. When you're poor, you're going to suffer as much as anyone else.
My take on things is that Trump is probably a Russian asset and Russian leadership probably wants a US civil war (but I don't have proof).
Objection: Speculation. No need to find plots and conspiracies, no matter whether they are right or wrong, shit is bad AF already. Focus on that.
I am scared and feel like civil war could still happen. I have no children, few ties to any area, and only work remotely. I live in a very liberal area. I am mostly a poor person and have less than $25,000 saved.
Dude, people who fled nazi Germany or any of the invaded countries evaded so much horror, suffering, fear, etc. Get the fuck out.
Should I be trying to flee the USA now? If so, would Canada be safe? Is there anywhere else I could go to? I could claim asylum in a Northern European country but am concerned about the Russian War of Aggression.
Canada is safe, until Trump wants it. Other options are Europe, lots of work for American expats, a lot of support for them. Like tax benefits etc. Other options are Asia, Africa, south America or Australia. In Australia everything tries to kill you, but New Zealand is nice. And English speaking too. Africa has some nice places, but salaries and benefits suck. Maybe south Africa, a friend of mine just moved there but he's a digital nomad and has a job in Europe.
Most Asian countries have poor salaries too, but the people are super nice in countries like Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia.
I don't know much from South America, but right now I think anything is better than the US.
Best of luck!
Leaving a country isn't that easy. And other countries has problems also - and being foreign in a country isn't for everyone.
I believe there is no reason to flee - yet.
People are angry but it's not revolution angry. I don't think with the media and smartphones and all the distractions will let people to do revolution.
If you still inclined to do so, check your tartget countries requirements for asylum or immigration. There are a lot of loops and hoops.
Learning a local language, getting a job, a place to live and eke out a life in a strange place without support is really hard.
Fuck, I'm over here wondering whether it isn't ALREADY too late 🙁
