Ask Lemmy

This post is technically against the "no politics"-rule, but it's a reasonable question that can be asked in a vacuum.

Please keep the comments centered away from the political side of things, especially the orange one - Let's assume OP is worried that Jill Stein is on track to winning 2028.

Stay classy.

EDIT: Downvoted by Jill Stein and her only supporter

I don't think you're overreacting given that a white male was just shot, as a protester, in cold blood just minutes ago.

I’m a white disabled trans woman, and I’m fuckin’ staying. Although it’s only a matter of time before the federal ungovernment turns its attention to my city, Portland, to leave would be to give up my home, and the only place I have known for an incredibly long time.

I will die eventually. That much is the only thing that’s true for me. My wave will move on to being just water somewhere else. Ideally, under peaceful circumstances. But it will happen here most likely.

I have friends to defend and friends to help, and they need help here.

As an American-born white male, I'm staying. If all the sane people flee the country, what does that leave behind? A bunch of right wing whack jobs with the biggest military in the world. You think our domestic problems are going to stay domestic? If we don't stay and stand up to this, it's going to spread worldwide anyway.

Not saying to not get your ducks in a row just in case, but I don't think running is going to save you for very long. If there's going to be a civil war, I'd rather our side actually have soldiers.

If you do decide to go (and I can certainly see why you would), you definitely shouldn't try to apply for asylum, but get a proper work visa for your country of choice. No country currently accepts asylum applications from Americans as far as I'm aware, certainly nowhere in Europe. And even if you somehow managed to do that, coming here as a refugee is no pleasant experience. You'd spend at least a couple months living in poor, very crammed conditions among people from countries where homophobia is much more widespread than in the US.

If I ever decide to leave Europe, my plan was always to go to New Zealand. Seems like a good place to escape global geopolitics and/or a possible WW3.

Canadian here. I know several people from the U.S. who have moved here. First of all, it's not easy. Canada immigration doesn't see Americans as any more desirable than other similar countries. It's a system of points. Some things that increase points are: skills, education, knowledge of English, probability that you will stay. Let me also say that the people I know find Canada a mixed bag. You probably don't realize it, but you probably have a huge American identity. Being in a place with a different culture and mindset brings out those sentiments, especially when the people around you are trash talking the way the U.S. is treating us. Realize that we legally have a lot less personal rights and more group rights. Realize we have systems that you would consider socialist and probably have different interest in sports, politeness, and the world. Having said that, most peoplewho have moved here enjoy the more easy-going style, the greater social safety net, and the reduction in fear. Some I've talked to have said this was the biggest thing that hit them. In the U.S., they unconsciously carried an inner fear that was not apparent in Canada. I'm not trying to encourage or discourage you. Just know, it's probably gonna be different than you expect it.

By the time the majority realizes they should leave, it’ll be too late. That’s just how authoritarianism works.

I am conflicted myself, but keep in mind why they are doing this. They know they lost the future generations and can’t win them back. Democrats have a massive majority of millennials and gen-z. These people are making their final power plays from their retirement homes and sick beds. We have decades to fix what they broke and make something new.

There are struggles with leaving. There are struggles with staying. You’re not wrong to leave if you can, but I think there’s a case for staying.

If you want to go to Europe, don't apply for asylum. This has no chance of succeeding, even for people from war-torn countries with ongoing genocides it is difficult.

The easiest way is to apply for a study visa. There are many EU countries with very good education, very low requirements for admission, and very low (or even no) tuition fees, even for non-EU students. Once you have a degree, you are anchored and can find a job and get citizenship without too much difficulty.

The alternative is to apply for a job. In this case you need some marketable skill that is difficult to find among the locals.

Leaving a country isn't that easy. And other countries has problems also - and being foreign in a country isn't for everyone.
I believe there is no reason to flee - yet.
People are angry but it's not revolution angry. I don't think with the media and smartphones and all the distractions will let people to do revolution.
If you still inclined to do so, check your tartget countries requirements for asylum or immigration. There are a lot of loops and hoops.
Learning a local language, getting a job, a place to live and eke out a life in a strange place without support is really hard.

As a German I had to learn about German history and the workings of fascism in great detail. With that in mind the outlook for the US is grim. I personally would strongly consider leaving given the unfolding situation. Ask yourself whether you are prepared to live your life in a fully authoritarian US society, where there is only a very limited rule of law, power is largely unconstrained at every level and violence just a part of daily life. Are you the type to flourish in a system comparable to today's Russia? Because of you don't flourish, you will suffer, there will be no middle ground.

The comments here are ridiculous, in the grand scheme of things our lives are but insignificant blips in time, our borders and laws are made up constructs, and you have free will. Stay and rebel, use your life to help others and fight this injustice, or cherish and protect the time you have and flee. There is no right answer.

If you stay arm yourself and start coming to terms with the fact that you might have to fight and you might die, if you go understand it's not gonna be easy, you are gonna have to learn to navigate a lot of bureaucracy that is unknown to you with no guarantees but 25k is enough to start a life a new, possibly even pay someone to marry you for citizenship in certain places.

That being said, the world is coming to a breaking point, we are destroying the planet, most of the world operates off of this concept of endless growth and consumption and above all rewarding greed and taking advantage of others, society needs to find a way to reward the altruistic and ways to live sustainably. Our resources like fresh water, oil, and food are bound too become more scarce and this fight is coming for everyone, everywhere.

I wish you the best of luck, I'm also at this crossroads and don't know what I'm going to do, luckily I love life, love learning, and I'm always having fun, I also have high demand skills but also I've lived a good and full life and if I die fighting for the world I want, maybe that's not so bad of a way to go. Once again, there is no right answer, do what you think is best.

I don't really have a "solution" for you I'm sorry.

FWIW, I'm absolutely sympathetic to your situation. I just can't imagine how this would feel.

To me, Canada sounds like a quick and easy option, but I don't know what the migration options there are like.

$25k USD is probably enough money to outlive Trump living a modest lifestyle in South East Asia.

It's interesting that the comments here are somewhat split between "leave" and "stay and fight". I honestly don't know which way I'd go. Basically I try to have courage to change the things I can, and acceptance to live with the things I can't. It seems like the US is really cooked. I'm sorry to sound like an ass but from where I'm standing, the current protests are just pitiful, no where near what it will take to change trajectory. Like "the people" could maybe change things but one person can't, and there aren't enough others.

I am someone born in the USA and white and male, so I am less at risk of harassment and brutality than others.

What a terrible error to think this way :-(

I have to link a quote from Martin Niemöller here. Please think about it, and maybe read more about him.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller#%E2%80%9EHabe_ich_geschwiegen%E2%80%9C

I would, personally. I am not white. I am relatively well off. I still believe I am generally fucked.

I would leave last year but there are some family and job issues. However, I have two avenues to two countries and plan to exercise one of them within a year if still possible.

If I could do it today, I would.

If you have the means, GTFO. I would if I were on that side of the Atlantic.

I was already out of the country during... the last time bad event happened... and I decided to stick it out and build a new life and get a permanent residence in case things did not improve. And then they didn't. I just managed to get my permanent residence right before... the current time bad event happened (2024).

The simplest thing I can say is, I don't regret the decision. I gave up a lot on the journey to my new life, but what I gained is knowledge and understanding of just how much crap you don't actually have to put up with... how much you SHOULDN'T have to put up with. Some things are worse, sure, but so much has been better for me as well... but one of the big problems I didn't think about is, the survivor's guilt is real. For what it's worth, I don't think in absolute terms there's any shame in fleeing. A nation is a societal construct in the first place, and I don't think you particularly owe anything to the nation you happen to be born in, especially one that shows such utter contempt for its citizens on a daily basis. But the people you know and care about... and the innocent people that don't have the opportunity you do to do the same... leaving them there leaves a wound, even when you KNOW deep down there is very little you can do personally by virtue of suffering through it with them. I know ultimately, my being here means I no longer pay taxes to support a US government that does heinous things... I no longer work for a company that actively makes the world worse... and I still vote from here, still support those that I believe in to help see change in the system... and I use that as a salve, but the simple reality is I don't get to be here with a clear conscience. It's a weakness, and I feel selfish for the choice I made. I don't know anything about you - perhaps none of this is an issue for you, and I'm not saying it should be, but if you know your own conscience to be prone to this kind of thinking, it is something you should also consider.

It is not hard to get in your car and drive to Mexico. Or take literally any airplane or boat out of the country. If Trump stopped all legal migration out of the country, it would cause a massive economic crisis as every business that profits from international travel or which depends on it for its operations would be disrupted - at which point, all Trump's rich supporters, as well as all the rich supporters of GOP senators and congresspeople would defect, and he would be ousted.

As long as legal migration is possible, again, you can just go to Mexico. You literally just flash your passport at a border agent and they let you in. There is some other paperwork you can do, which isn't even hard, but practically speaking it is not really needed even if it is legally required... because Mexico.

Once in northern Mexico, you can find a nice casita on the outskirts of a safe little village and live on rice and beans while you figure out what you are doing with your life. Find a country that will give you a working visa. Flights in Mexico are very cheap, and you can easily make your way to the Mexico City airport, where you can catch a flight to pretty much any country in the world you might want to go.

I did. I have a family that I feel a responsibility to keep safe, and I am lucky enough to have the means to do so, so we left about a month ago.

Whether or not that's a great idea I don't know, but I also like this new place quite a lot.

You are slightly overreacting, yes. You may as well simply move to a blue state and city.

There is also another real question to ask:

If you run somewhere else and your new home also begins to slide toward right wing fascism will you just run again?

People are focusing on the legal ways to leave the country but if you need to go I will mention that travel visa overstay is a common method. Easier to claim asylum once you’re in the country. Not legal advice.

Gays are one of the groups to target. I wouldn’t feel safe if I were you.

G'Day mate. I'd leave. With the student visa thing people are talking about, if you can get a few years study elsewhere, by that time the USA will have slipped so far down the toilet that asylum might have become a more legitimate option.

You could try Alaska for a few years. Theres very few law enforcement in general, and the culture is one of people sort of minding their own business. Any law enforcement effort there will be deemed not worth the cost when theres so few people. Jobs might be scarce.

I'm not a US citizen but I thought it might be worth writing some of my rationale for leaving the US incase it helps you.

As far as I could tell, anyone that could spell democratic backslide thought it would happen in the US. Many in Trump's orbit even seemed to be targeting it. The main thing in dispute seemed to be how much it would happen. In my understanding slipping down the scale from democracy towards autocracy tends to come with a government ideology, demonising science/experts, persecution of minorities, erratic aggressive foreign policy, targeting of political enemies, removing checks on overreach/corruption/fraud, state controlled Fed, and federal officers harassing the population.

I was worried I might be overreacting and wanted to have some idea of the odds so I basically read every executive order that they sent out. It was only a few weeks until I put in my resignation & made plans to leave. I encourage everyone to read their executive orders. Personally, I don't think it's easy to reassess the US for another 8 years (two into the second term post Trump 2.0). This is mostly given the mass government firings, partisan heads of agencies, mass resignations over perceived corruption, partisanship of the supreme court (measured by differences of rulings compared to the lower courts), removal (some still in progress) of institutions and removal of personnel that target corruption/fraud. There are a lot of ways this could improve but I'd ague it's pretty risky over that timeline and just really tough to access a short term swing compared to a long term one. That amount of time is a decent portion of someone's life.

I'd also argue that the commentary about people running is a bit misplaced in this situation because this is arguably the most powerful country in the world. For me, not being a citizen, that meant I should minimise my contribution to it succeeding and that meant removing my taxes and contribution to the workforce. I think that rationale can hold for citizens but also agree that there need to be people in the country fighting more against Trump 2.0 or it's going to get worse for most of the globe.

For me, I then thought through what entities seemed best placed to resist a potential rogue state (and definite erratic state) as large as the US. For me, that seemed to have one line item: the EU.