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Actually I looked up the real story of Johnny Appleseed and he was more about making hard cider and selling land. π
You canβt take the seed of a tasty apple, plant it and expect the tree to have similarly tasting apples. If you want to duplicate a tree, you need to take a twig and graft it on top of an existing tree.
Source: MinuteEarth on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIajCqcvTg8)
I love that grafting is real and it works. It always seems like straight scifi to me.
The real marvels are the ones where they graft apples, oranges, etc together. Expensive as hell and they don't survive as long though.
Grafting?
Take a small branch of a tree you like, splice it using a technique, take a small young tree of same type but different variety, splice it, attach branch of variety you like, seal. Nurture it, and the branch uses the donor tree to pull up nutrients and water, and the branch then grows into a whole new tree. It's cloning, but grafting helps it move faster and without as much risk.
Well, you can just buy apple trees from a nursery, it's what farmers do.
Yes but that's because the nursery has already grafted the branches of a known-to-be-tasty cultivar onto that tree before putting it up for sale.
johnny appleseed would also show up right after native americans were run off from their native orchards and declare those sapling riparian orchards his.
not a coincidence as his business was selling sour apple saplings to new immigrants.
johnny appleseed was a typical christian businessman using the chaos of genocide as a place to put his wallet and the marketing of a pot on his head to get notice.
and the US destroyed the last of the orchards that he claimed as his creation during Prohibition.
because usa.
Apparently apples were primarily used for making booze right from the start of the country, which does indeed make Johnny Appleseed's story feel rather different.
In Finland there is this law called jokamiehenoikeudet. Roughly translates into "everymans rights"
Everymans rights allow everyone to enjoy nature in regardless of who owns the land as long as it is done responsibly and without causing harm or disturbance. These rights apply to all people, including visitors.
You are allowed to: Walk, ski, and cycle freely in forests, fields, and other natural areas (as long as you do not damage crops or do it on somebodys yard). Camp temporarily on uncultivated land. Pick wild berries, mushrooms, and flowers (aslong as they are not protected.) Swim, row, and use waterways freely.
But you cant: Cause damage to nature, animals, or property. Disturb residents or invade privacy. Light open fires without the landownerβs permission. Drive motor vehicles off-road without permission. Harm protected species or take branches, bark, or timber from living trees.
So atleast in Finland if the fruit tree is not on anybodys yard or planted for a business use, you can eat the fruit and its not a crime.
It's all of Northern Europe, not Finland especially.
It's called "the right to roam" in English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
All Nordics, Scotland, and even some more central European countries like Switzerland and Czech Republic have variations of it.
And it is not the reason we don't plant fruit trees in cities. The reason we don't plant fruit trees in cities is theyre messy as fuck.
Just think of how often you see buckets of apples labeled "omenoita ilmaseksi!" in the fall. Because people want to clean up their yards of all the rotten apples. Imagine that on every sidewalk.
The reason we don't do it today is because fruits would fall on the ground and people would complain it gets dirty. As stupid as that.
City planners in the 60s favored male trees for this reason. Then air pollution and a warming climate, mixed with all that extra pollen, gave rise to a huge increase in seasonal allergies in urban areas.
If youβve ever walked through a spot with female ginkgo trees that are fruiting youβll understand way. Thereβs way too many to eat and theyβre somehow sticky and slippery at the same time
Yeah, I've got a persimmon tree and pecan tree, all the good stuff gets eaten by the squirrels, what's falls just makes a rotten mess.
Not just dirty, but the fruit falls on the ground which attracts bugs, rats, etc. that eat the fallen fruit.
In my mom's hometown there are fruit trees literally everywhere. Everyone and their dog has them. The public areas have them. The forests have them. There are fruit all over the ground. Nobody 'steals' or gathers to sell. They make alcohol and share it with anyone that comes within line of sight like pokemon trainers forcing you to battle. Also all of the kids are sick of eating the fruit but if they feel like eating any they don't even have to pick it themselves because all the parents and grandparents will pick wash and even cut up the fruit and serve it on a platter with even the slightest hint of interest. I ate a lot of plums and pears and drank a fuckload of brandy.
What's the town? You can't just promise a bounty of food and not name-drop it.
I have a bunch of cherry tomatoes plants on the outside fence of my garden. And 6 kiwi plants. They produce so much fruit and i deliberately placed them on the roadside on a road where not a lot of people even walk by. You know, so people can take some fruits if they want. One day my neighbour came over and he was really concerned that people would steal my fruit. I explained to him that it's not really stealing when i even provide little containers to take some on the road or home. The conversation was way longer than i was comfortable with, and i don't think he ever understood the concept.
I'd be worried about someone taking all the fruit from all the trees then selling it.Β
Too many trees to harvest them all. People wonβt buy it when they can pick their own for free. If people see you taking ALL of the fruit, not just what you can use, they will stop you.
This is actually a great representation of the difference in culture I've seen between the US and visiting a couple places in Europe and particularly Sweden.
I don't know if actual public fruit tree orchards are a thing anywhere, but the general feel of "holy crap they can have nice things in shared spaces here" was everywhere.
I know of a golf course which has orchard trees on it and golfers are allowed to eat as much as they want.
So rich people get free food but not poor people π
Your Johnny Appleseed comment reminded me of my favorite movie musical, Paint Your Wagon (1969) with Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin. And, yes, they both sing!
Elizabeth: Did you know that the Fenty's had an apple farm back in Pennsylvania?
Ben Rumson: Apple jack, huh?
Mr. Fenty: No, sir, we did not make apple jack.
Ben Rumson: Then, what did you grow the apples for?
Mr. Fenty: Mr. Rumson, do you think that everything that comes out of the earth should be used to make liquor?
Ben Rumson: Whenever possible, yes.
Gonna paint our wagon gonna paint it good We ain't braggin' We're gonna coat that wood!
Apple seeds have like a one in 10k chance of producing a sweet apple that is nearly as good as what else is on the market, and like one in 100k for it to be better. Every other one comes out to a nearly inedible crab apple.
Always seemed like a cool hobby to me if I somehow became rich. It's like a gamble that is just as much your time, as it is your money.
yeah but if you grow an apple tree with crappy fruit you can saw off branches and graft good branches from a good tree onto it so that it produces good apples, that is how nearly all apple orchards are
Correct, it was a land grab scam based on the laws of the time.
IIRC, if he planted trees it was then his land because he was using it, so he could then sell it for actual money. This was after the military had killed or chased out the natives who lived on it, of course.
IIRC
You don't recall correctly, and I have no idea where you got that information. Appleseed actually was a successful businessman who bought some land where he planted trees, owning about 1200 acres (~5 km^2^), but by all accounts he was a genuinely good person, and I've never heard what you're saying (and not substantiating) that he did.
Ah but you see, their comment has the message of "capitalism bad", so it doesn't really matter if what they wrote is true.
My garden, or what's left of it, is full of insects stealing it.
Ants can steal more than 10x their body weight in one go.
Let me introduce you to my neighbor Mr. Groundhog.
If you made public fruit trees, someone would try to pick them clean and sell it at a fruit stand 20 miles away.
In the Republic, Plato proposed that any citizen could eat fruit from any tree so long as they were sitting underneath the tree that bore the fruit.
Yup, this whole ownership thing is totally fubar!
(and yes, I do prefer to own things too, but there could be a healthy middle ground)
private, public, and personal property are three different concepts. most anarcho-communists have no objection at all to personal property
I wonder if that person would consider foraging for mushrooms and berries in the forest to be stealing as well.
Fun historical fact: Those apples were not for eating, they were for making hard cider.
162 comments and not one about lemon stealing whores.
Not sure if I'm disappointed or just old.
iirc Johnny Appleseed spread seeds so people could make alcoholic cider