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Freedom of Speech by Norman Rockwell and referencing TNG s7e12 "The Pegasus"
Then he should have spent his time advocating renegotiating the terms of the treaty. Looking at it in isolation it seems like a no brainer, but throwing away decades of peace because you feel like star fleet is falling behind is a spit in the face of the goals of the federation in favor of escalation in military technology.
His methodology and reasoning are absolutely wrong. The tech itself is worth having.
No matter how many times Section 13 or whatever gets crowbarred into the newer shows, the federation doesn't slink in the shadows. It's antithetical to everything they stand for.
That's just what they want you to think...
That's just what section 31 wants you to think that they think
BUT, if we know that they know that WE know that they know...
Why?
Phase tech that would allow them to purposefully go through matter? Sure. But the cloak part isn't really necessary when the whole purpose is to explore. It's useful for combat but Starfleet actively tries to avoid battle as much as possible. Having invisible weapons or starbases just feels like it goes against what the Federation stands for. To not hide in shadows but stand up and speak truth.
To me anyway
Avoiding combat is a lot easier when you’re undetected.
Which doesn't line up with anything that Starfleet stands for. Either they're going cloaked literally all the time and never contacting any outside races, which is antithetical to everything that the United Federation of Planets does, or you're only using it in hotzones that Starfleet actively tries to avoid in the first place. But you're also forgetting about the major risk of running cloaked. If someone does detect you, your intentions are going to seem immediately suspect. You're not going to come off like some noble, space-faring organization that strives for the best in everyone if you're hiding from people and spying on them before revealing yourself.
Admittedly, there aren't a lot of "honorable" uses for it. Even in Insurrection, the Federation abused cloaking tech on Ba'ku in their attempt to relocate the population. Observation with the intent to not interfere would benefit from cloaking availability. Not much else coming to mind.
Yeah, that's all I've got too. Research/study of Pre-warp civilizations is literally the only thing that I can think of but Heisenberg says "Good fuckin' luck with that one" too. Maybe the cloak could break it.
Was there a Breaking Bad / Star Trek Disco crossover episode? Who's Heisenberg?
Okay that got me. I'm referencing the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and, more specifically, the Observer Effect which says that the study of something will inherently change it. Granted, that applies to physics in that case but it's still used in reference to studying various other things as there is no way to study something without leaving a footprint of some kind. That footprint alone is enough to vary the study or, as Starfleet is afraid of with Pre-Warp civilizations, vary the thing you're studying.
Oh gotcha. Yeah wasn't even thinking about that. Good joke.
I should have realized, since there's an old joke in my family my parents would make that when you forgot to turn on the burner, you were cooking with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Effect. Something about it being possible for all the atoms of the food to spontaneously change energy states, just incredibly unlikely.
Oh that's a far better joke.... I'm stealing that one. That's fantastic.
Cloaking for pre- first-contact missions makes a ton of sense. I think if the enterprise showed up in orbit today, we’d notice.
But if it is outlawed by treaty, that’s that.
Phasing just seems like really good shields to me—defensive, but not covert. How many times would the Enterprise been able to just outright avoid entire story lines if it couldn’t be touched? Not even confrontational issues—like when asteroid dust introduced metal-eating parasites, that just wouldn’t have happened.
Although, just like any advantage, even a defensive advantage like phasing could be used for offensive purposes (invasion, etc) unless an equal counter to it is developed.
Thinking about it further, you’d almost assume any people with the technology of faster than light travel would have had to develop some form of phasing tech prior to the FTL stuff…
Cloaks strike me as primarily defensive tech with potential offenses strategies
Klingons use it almost exclusively as an offensive technology.
Romulans use it to misinform and to be the boogy-man.
These aren't Starfleet or Federation ideals.
But wouldn't it also help with the Prime Directive?
They use holograms for ground outposts, and you can't really see a ship in orbit easily.
The use case with the prime directive is rather limited.
If we had the Enterprise NCC 1701, no bloody A, B, C, or D in orbit, you would be able to see it with the naked eye. The thing is 288 m long. Even in geosynchronous orbit you'd still be barely able to see it.
If you're referring to pretty much any of the classes of starships once TNG starts, those ships would be clearly visible in a standard low to high orbit.
That's understandable for civilizations up to industrial age, but once they start getting prewarp, hiding in orbit would get more and more difficult.all the satellites in orbit, telescopes and scanners would likely pick up something
the big shields are used primarily in combat. thus they are offensive technology.
Shields are, and always have been defensive. Weapons are offensive.
the shield that displaces light is an offensive technology
Thus the premise is false at face value
It's worth noting that Pressman wasn't alone in this, he had approval, it was just kept hushed.
I'm going to do something a little different from the rest of the comments here and think about it from a strategic realpolitik perspective: the Federation played an absolute blinder with the phased cloak device. It was a genuine strategic and political masterstroke.
They knew the Romulans, who they signed a treaty with not to develop cloaking technology in exchange for peace, were becoming emboldened and expansionist... they were gearing to break the peace anyway. They knew the Romulans, in their arrogance, thought the treaty held them back. That their agreement to peace was a mistake, and that their empire was suffering because of it.
So the Federation says yes, develop this cloaking tech that is vastly beyond anything the Romulans (or Klingons) have.
The Romulans see it, and they can't believe it. They can't believe how woefully outmatched they are.
Suddenly it dawns upon them that breaking the Treaty of Algeron is something they really don't want to do, and that confrontation is not in their interest.
The Federation then says, so how about this treaty, eh? Should we scrap it, put this phased cloak on all of our ships, then go to war? Or should we bin this cloak and both agree stick to the treaty? Put yourself in the Romulans' shoes... what would you do when you're faced with that choice?
Both parties silently agree that the event didn't happen. But the Federation comes out of it top dog. Their enemy has been put in their place and knows that a war would not go well for them.
That was a distraction. Where he went wrong was that he violated cardinal Federation law. Worse, he enlisted others into his conspiracy to defraud the Federation for decades.
That was his crime
Was he trying to distract from the Epstein files?
Only you could let us all know for sure…
Incredibly bleak to think that the files might still not be released in 345 years.
It wasn’t a cloaking device, it was a phase shift device which the Romulans also experimented with.
It was both.
Somewhere else it's mentioned that the Klingons also worked on the concept.
I'd argue that a device that also happens to render the user invisible is not inherently a cloaking device.
A flintlock pistol is not legally a firearm in the US, and that distinction matters to quite a few people around here.
Now, ultimately the end result is the same (invisibility/shooty stick go boom) so in the end, the romulans would still consider it a cloak.
There was an episode of TNG where the crew was being eaten alive by "inter-phasic" aliens and Dr. Crusher could only see them by using her I P Scanner (tee hee). So my question is: how does Starfleet know they wont phase into a layer of spacetime inhabited by, say, giant spaceship eating worms?
18 USC § 921(a)(16) disagrees with you
Out of sheer curiosity I checked. 18 USC § 921(a)(16) defines "antique firearm" for purposes of crimes and criminal procedure. The term "firearm" is defined in 18 USC § 921(a)(3), which includes the text, "Such term does not include an antique firearm." (source)
It's perplexing because the "antique firearm" definition has numerous references to "firearm". The (A) and (B) parts include or reference the text, "any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) ...".
So it looks like antique firearms are an instance of Russell's Paradox. I guess a flintlock is not not a firearm. Paradox resolving powers must be one of those things you need law school for.
So, would it fall under projectile weaponry like a cannon/artillery?
As I recall, a flintlock pistol is still considered a firearm. Its just an "antique" firearm which means US regulations and laws around them are more relaxed.
Wording is important. It isn't a cloaking device. It may also cause the user to become invisible, but it is not a cloaking device.
Much in the way that a handgonne isn't a pistol. And how a flintlock pistol isn't legally considered a firearm in the United States (as the founding fathers intended)
That said? The romulans would use any excuse they feel like to launch an attack. They won't care that it isn't a cloak. They'll say it doesn't matter and the intention of the treaty was clear. Ultimately they don't care about wording over intent, they'll interpret the treaty in whichever way is most favorable for themselves and hope they're still standing when the dust settles.
That said, I think any attack they launch would merely be a test of starfleet's response. "if we attack are they going to let us keep what we take in exchange for 'peace', will they fight for its return, or would they press a counter-attack?" kind of thing.
Maybe I'm over thinking it.
It cloaked the ship. The method is likely irrevalent, as the federation was banned by treaty from having cloaked ships. If a deep slathering of mustard had rendered the enterpise cloaked, that would also have been a violation of the treaty.
I guarentee that if you murdered someone with a flintlock pistol by shooting them, arguing that "technically its not a gun" would not help your defense in any reaonable way. That's because the law isnt just about "technicality," but also "intent," as you say. The test ships intent was to phase and to cloak, and that makes it illegal for the federation, no matter the novelty. Its not romulan manipulation of law, its just the law read clearly.
Then it wouldn’t have violated the treaty…
That the official Federation position is that Pressman violated the Treaty of Algernon is, in my view, the best argument that it is a cloaking device.
You can make the argument in TNG, but a working cloaking device was really useful when dealing with the Dominion, including mining the Bajoran wormhole. A phase-shift cloak might have ended the war earlier.
Hell, the Khitomer accords were rewritten in 2375 with both sides seeing potential conflict with the Dominion. I'm surprised the Federation didn't ask to get rid of the cloaking device ban at that time.
If he's so right, why is he phase shifted into an asteroid?
The position of Star Fleet Admiral is the Peter Principle at its absolute worst. Star Fleet shouldn't adopt cloaking technology, it should abolish every rank above Captain.
Firstly, pressman wasn’t acting alone on developing the cloak. They wen through what would have been the “normal channels” for “ sensitive research” and more or less had federation approval.
So it’s not entirely pressman’s fault.
Also, while the Feddies should never have signed that treaty, they should have abided it after it was signed.
Also, also, Picard made a unilateral decision to leak knowledge of the cloaking device to the Rommies, rather than report it to what passes for an inspector general.
It’s a miracle Picard’s action didn’t spark another war.
By this point Picard has a reputation, and the Tal Shiar has a whole personality file on him. Picard showing an Admiral working on a clandestine cloaking device probably means a lot.
Yeah, there's no follow-up to his decision. Pitfall of episodic TV. Oh well, we'll just assume it all worked out and the Romulans were somehow cool with it.
As a side note, the reason closing devices were given up was because the federation didn’t see a need for them. Sneaking wasn’t something that was considered essential.
Because their warships didn’t need to sneak.
