Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1p48x0x/can_anyone_confirm_are_modern_students_really/
Turns out that capitalism in decay produces an environment which is actively harmful to human growth and flourishing. Who could have predicted that?
Skeptical about the screenshot. And rest of thread.
I asked if he knew the color red, he said No, and I ended up having to google a picture of the color and show it to him.
The teacher was unable to locate a red object in a kindergarten class?
Out of classes of 20, over half are in early reading intervention groups. They can't spell or write their names
Isn't that what school is for at this age? Surely its not assumed that the majority of children can spell before going to kindergarten at age 4 or 5.
we're supposed to have them reading writing full sentences...
Here is a kindergarten writing curriculum I found: https://www.wpschools.org/cms/lib/NJ01001331/Centricity/Domain/4/K%20Writing.pdf By the end of November, expectations:
Demonstrate command of the conventions of standard English capitalization, punctuation, and spelling when writing.
A. Capitalize the first word in a sentence and the pronoun I.
B. Recognize and name end punctuation.
C. Write a letter or letters for most consonant and short-vowel sounds (phonemes).
D. Spell simple words phonetically, drawing on knowledge of sound-letter relationships.
If this is supposedly an inside baseball forum for people who are professional teachers, why are they not discussing the sorts of things which are reasonable goals? I would expect to see stuff about assessment tools/criteria, milestones etc.
kindergartners coming in who are not toilet trained - so many that the district is now advising teachers to make a toilet training plan.
I don't believe that phones can cause parents to delay toilet training for years. What is the proposed mechanism for assuming such cost (diapers) and inconvenience (laundry and mess)? How do phones make that less annoying.
I don't buy that this could be ubiquitous among poor people or people who work long hours.
yeah this smells like bullshit to me too.
Kids should know how to spell their name by age 4 and definitely by 5 barring some kind of learning disability. Typically kids go to kindergarten with some knowledge of letters and writing. They do not need to know how to write pretty much anything else besides their name though so the writing curriculum you pulled isn't really applicable to just their names. Most kids are taught the letters and phonics of their names from a very early age and is the entry point into writing.
edit to add: I agree tho this post is BS lol
But don't you teaching toddlers writing is cultural, not natural or to be assumed? That's why sesame street was made as an intervention to teach letters and other things. Not everyone is motivated or knowledgeable on how to teach literacy. Assuming parents are literate in any language much less English. Its November, kids have been in school for 2 months.
And people's names are not exactly equal to each other in difficulty. Some people have many names, or they are extremely long, complex, having clumsily romanized spellings, or unique among their peers. Or their name at home is completely different than name at school. Do you think its fair to expect everyone to pick it up at the same speed given diversity of home environments?
I actually do think at the end of the day, it is the schools job and not the parents to teach writing. And to peek in on general development and offer support. I think phones could be substantially changing how all that is done but this particular post is as you say, bullshit. Somebody's fantasy.
Assuming parents are literate in any language much less English.
86% of the worlds adult population is literate which is the vast majority. No one said anything about English. I learned how to write my name in Farsi first. Once I knew how to write in Farsi learning English was much easier since most of the skills in writing are completely transferable. Spending time with your children and showing them their name and practicing writing is fun and something people are capable of.
Not everyone is motivated or knowledgeable on how to teach literacy.
Teaching 4 year olds how to write their names is really not a huge lift, Sorry, I don't agree. You should be motivated to spend time with and educate your children and family members. If you lack adults able and willing to do this it is extremely problematic and possibly abusive. It should be attended to in school and they need to be tooled to help people with special needs but this should absolutely not be the majority or expectation.
Do you think its fair to expect everyone to pick it up at the same speed given diversity of home environments?
Writing your name is not that difficult and most kids enjoy learning. Not everyone will be able to and that's ok, but most people should be.
I actually do think at the end of the day, it is the schools job and not the parents to teach writing.
I vehemently disagree. It is in fact a parents job to educate their children to the best of their ability. Schools are tooled to make up for gaps not do everything. They should be able to focus on the percentage of people who are unable to and give them extra attention not do everything for everyone.
You should be motivated to spend time with and educate your children and family members. If you lack adults able and willing to do this it is extremely problematic and possibly abusive.
While I agree with you overall I don't think you'll get much traction here with that framing. I doubt any meaningful proportion of parents are failing to spend time with their kids willingly; more likely is that both parents need to work long hours just to make ends meet. That's a broader social failing, not abuse.
Kids have been every problem of society since humans invented society. This is drivel.
that said, kids probably shouldn't be on Roblox or on the internet unsupervised. but good luck getting that changed under capitalism.
i never buy shit like this anymore. i b doing shit outside. i interact with kids in my neighborhood or kids at the skatepark regularly enough that i can confidently say the kids are alright. i find it pretty wild how older people are constantly trying to claim these kids cant read too. all they do is read on their phones and shit all day. maybe they can’t spell due to auto correct but boomers can’t either and thats not phones fault.
Being able to use menus and user interfaces is a bit different to being able to read and comprehend any amount of text. I have conversations with people online everyday where I'm like "this person didn't actually understand what I wrote to them because their reading comprehension is so poor". Being functional online does not mean being in any way capable.
They would get lost in a terminal, which isn't a substitute for reading either. Although using a terminal does include reading documentation by using man.
never believe anything written on reddit
i would take anything from reddit with a grain of salt, and anything from r/teachers with an even bigger grain of salt. this is not to say that computers/the internet arent in some way hurting children's development but i think there are a lot of lies said on r/teachers because it confirms people's biases and gets a shit ton of upvotes
edit: i mean seriously. that place is a reactionary shit hole, clicked on thread and am immediately seeing comments with 100s of upvotes blaming these kids for having "zero work-ethic" and no "grit" and how they're being given too much grace blah blah blah
edit 2: got to original comment, and important context that even if this is true, the person in the screenshot says they are working in an extremely poor area. however, also still probably a reactionary shithead
My good faith read is that many parents are overwhelmed and burnt out. I teach kids from working poor families. Folks are maintaining two or 3 jobs, pulling 10 hour shifts, and doing it while being a single parent to multiple children.
My bad faith read is that some of these parents are just outright neglecting their kids and know teachers will pick up the slack because we have no other choice. If we want them to learn, we have to teach them the basics their parents didn't teach them first.
commenter isnt even mentioning that their school is absolutely extremely underfunded and probably defacto racially segregated
that place is a reactionary shit hole
I've believed this place is an op or is effectively unmoderated for a long time. If i ran the sub id be doing what r/k12sysadmin does, verification that posters actively work in schools. The nursing and askdoctors sub do this, but teachers doesn't. I've found that r/teaching isn't as bad.
R/teachers hates kids with a passion and reddit hates them even more.
immediately seeing comments with 100s of upvotes blaming these kids for having "zero work-ethic" and no "grit" and how they're being given too much grace blah blah blah
Yeah! Why won't these checks notes infant children pull themselves up by their own bootstraps!? 
these particular commenters were going off middle schoolers/high schoolers i believe, however i wouldnt be surprised, they were complaining about the amount of "handholding" in society keeping kids from doing sports or whatever. it wasnt all bad, there were a few commenters accurately pointing out that it was more likely how expensive it was and wealth inequality, and even a couple pointing out that the "laziness" people are seeing from kids is actually probably rational apathy towards the system's obvious decay that they can see every day on their phone screens, but those comments arent shitting on some of the most vulnerable members of society so they arent getting showered in 100s of upvotes
but those comments arent shitting on some of the most vulnerable members of society so they arent getting showered in 100s of upvotes
Certified 
moment, 
website.
should i blame the government for forcing huge classrooms of working class children on me instead of either increasing their parents' wages or instituting universal pre-k?
no, it's the parents fault for being evil (because they're poor!!!)
(god i hope 99% of the commenters on there arent actually teachers)
(god i hope 99% of the commenters on there arent actually teachers)
On the one hand, it's , so they're probably mostly teenage / early 20s boys and federal agents.
On the other hand, it's Amerikkka, so the actual teachers are probably too.
and LLMs!
I take everything related to teaching or school I read online or even hear in real life with a grain of salt. is going to be worse than most places, but this topic is a real honeypot for ”back in my day” and ”kids these days” rhetoric.
comments with 100s of upvotes blaming these kids for having "zero work-ethic" and no "grit"
"He's fucking 2 years old."
"Yeah well he should be in the mines!"
I heard that they yearn for them
Heads up, that sub is straight up filled with racists
yes, i kind of tried to point that out in my comment, that these teachers working in schools with working class kids complaining about them are usually also working in the extremely underfunded schools which "just so happen" to be primarily attended by racial minorities (i.e. if these are real teachers many of them are probably huge racists using dogwhistles)
Maybe technology is bad for kids, but that reads like a good ol' "kid-stupid" boomer bait.
I'm sure this has everything to do with YouTube and nothing to do with the fact that parents can't afford private pre school anymore. Definitely let's blame the parents instead of the system
there were more community pre-K programs going on when i was a kid, as far as i am aware. like that was a thing parents could take advantage of at no cost.
it wasn't just 0 -> kindergarten. i did a year in pre-school where i learned the ABCs song and basic phonics.
from what i understand now, that shit hardly exists in most communities and if it does, it is not only not free, it's expensive as hell, so it's only for affluent parents.
class sizes are also bigger and as i've heard from career public school teachers, every class is all over the place in terms of abilities. so if you have 1-2 kids who need a ton of attention, it's doable. but once you have more than 5, it's a bust.
schools allocated funding towards teachers aids, but i wouldn't be shocked if, like every thing else, that got offloaded decades ago onto competitive federal block grants which have all seen gutting this year.
so, you take all that, you take the socioeconomic context of the place, the fact that public school teaching has been reduced to precarious levels of pay for requiring extensive expensive education and professional licensing, and you deploy it all as a strategic, deliberate, multi-pronged approach to gutting universal free education as a social program for the working class and you're going to see a catastrophe that compounds year over year regardless of whatever technology "these dang kids today" are using.
before it was phones, it was video games. before that TV, before that comics. kids with exhausted/inattentive parents stay up crazy late goofing around into some shit and are completely fucked during the school day with behavioral problems and they aren't thriving in the classroom.
i love to shit on phones/screens and doomscrolling, but the bigger picture here is austerity, emiseration, and inequality at 100 year highs.
it takes a village to raise a child and the village is on fire.
We build a world with no sense of purpose and then wonder why children have no interest in learning anything. We should study what these devices do to us, there might be effects we deem harmful and that should be regulated.
Also some of the largest offline communities around my hometown are churches who think technology and woke are ruining the world. They're the best equipped to organize people, at the current moment. Why do you guys think they want to ban tiktok? The outcome might not be as rosy as it might seem, should it happen right now.
I have long thought that people shouldn't be allowed to be parents and this just really reaffirms that, as Americans push more and more parenting onto school workers anyway. It just blows my mind that something as important as teaching new people how to be people is just left up to people with random (and generally no) qualifications and how staggeringly widespread what is basically child abuse even from parents who aren't even necessarily abusive. There's a lot of knowledge necessary to even attempt to raise a kid properly.
for all of human history people who probably shouldnt be parents have been parents and have been teaching people how to be people for better or worse. the condition of modern children isnt en masse the fault of the parents. there’s a lot more in play here. being a parent is also the most basic human function, not even right but biological function
for all of human history people who probably shouldnt be parents have been parents and have been teaching people how to be people for better or worse
I didn't say this was a new thing
For most of human history, the community raised the children and biological parents had no special powers or responsibility (or ownership). The people most involved in raising kids would be—shockingly—not be ones the community thinks is bad at raising children
Then the family was invented and class society following that
Anyone about to argue with me, just imagine me raising a kid. Gottem! 
I remember there was a big stir back then about China restricting screentime and gaming hours for children/students. Lots of liberal and chud pearl clutching of course, but it's funny to see that westerners are suffering what China had already proposed a solution to years ago.
There are so many things wrong with the way we raise kids. Right from day one the whole community is supposed to raise a child and teach them. Instead we are isolated in family groups. But those family groups don't have the time and energy to both work and raise a child, so the child gets raised by an algorithm. The algorithm is designed for engagement, not education, so they are essentially raised by a toy.
The thing that scares me the most though is how parents are using monitoring technology. Kids are growing up thinking constant surveillance is normal and OK. They are going to grow up and not knowing how to set boundaries.
What happens when a little girl grows up, gets a boyfriend, and thinks that it's perfectly fine that he installed a stalking app on her phone, because after all, that's what her mother used to do?
The first time I heard about the "elf on a shelf" practice was a 
moment for me because it was a little too on-the-nose in the wake of the Patriot Act.
The surveillance normalization thing is something I never really thought about. It’s a scary thought.
When mommy and daddy both have to work 2-3 jobs to pay the rent..
This is totally why so many places are trying to abolish child labour laws. Instead of addressing the cost of childcare, or the underlying causes of both parents needing to work multiple jobs in so many households, legislators' solution that doesn't cut into bourgeois profits is to just let the children get jobs too, so they'll technically be under adult supervision at work while their parents are also working, and instead of paying for childcare, the household can have a bit more money to feed and clothe the kid... a perfect solution, at least on paper!
What a reactionary filled reddit thread. Ugh.
Maybe students are apathetic, disinterested and untrustworthy of adults for a reason other than TikTok? Hmmm...
there are actually a couple of comments i saw pointing this very thing out (buried ofc because only reactionary screeds against children gets u 100s of upvotes), but yeah r/teachers is terrible about just shitting all over children like they're subhuman or something, i really hope most people on there arent actually teachers and are just bots/reactionaries making shit up
