r/startrek: The Next Generation
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Upcoming Episodes
| Date | Episode | Title |
|---|---|---|
| 08-21 | SNW 3x07 | "What Is Starfleet?" |
| 08-28 | SNW 3x08 | "Four-and-a-Half Vulcans" |
| 09-04 | SNW 3x09 | "Terrarium" |
| 09-11 | SNW 3x10 | "New Life and New Civilizations" |
| TBA | SFA 1x01 | TBA |
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Enterprise was ridiculously "Tits out for the boys" and it was a really weird direction to go after Voyager. Like Enterprise had some dumb dumb shit, frat boy type stuff.
Characters in their underwear for quarantine, women's shirts slipping off because they were crawling around in the vent system. Stuff that didn't make sense and was played for Scooby Doo style laughs.
It's all part of why it's bad.
I feel it necessary to mention that gem of storytelling called "Huh huh huh ur a dude and ur preggers huh huh huh".
did you somehow forget 7 of 9?
Whose whole character arc is about the female trauma of losing control of ones body and having it occasionally violated?...
....with a large dose of how to connect with your mother figures, even when one is being a bit of a Borg queen?
No, I didn't forget, and it's great that Voyager hit some gender specific trauma stuff consistently with 7 of 9.
That may be how it turned out in the end, but that story arc is absolutely not why 7 of 9 was added as a character on the show.
Some impressive gymnastics going on with the guy you're replying to...
What I remember people saying about Enterprise at the time was along the lines of "hadn't they learned their lesson with Voyager?" 7 of 9's outfit was an embarrassing thing non-trekkies would point to when characterizing Trek fans as "virgin nerds".
you and @baines@lemmy.cafe are correct, though i consider that part of the triumph of 7. the writing and acting elevated that character way beyond the box they tried to put her in.
i will agree that later she had depth
Even with the backroom politics of 90s TV, they still cooked with the ingredients they were given.
Where as Enterprise thinks of its self as (according to the article) "a man’s man’s Star Trek"... and seems scared of the Me Too movement.
So yeah Voyager played the hand they were dealt, and surpassed Enterprise by far.
she didn’t need to look like that to carry that message
please don’t pretend the point was sexy first
How many nip slips did 7 of 9 have?
Jeri Ryan is just a good looking actress and spandex are very scifi.
you can always go lower, there’s practically no bottom, doesn’t change the fact that crazy over the top outfit was purely to sell sexy
Does the question: "Did you somehow forget 7 of 9?" read "let's limit the discussion to judging the women based on costumes alone" or say "Lets judge the character's strengths based on why TV producers had them introduced"?
No, the discussion - and even the article is about how Enterprise is claiming to be "a man's man's version of Star Trek" a "boy's club" and feel lucky they got in before Me Too happened.
So reiterating "Yeah, but TV producers really wanted Jeri Ryan to look sexy" doesn't change those facts, or the topic.
Voyager took what producers gave them, and still wrote a deeper look into gender trauma with it.
what? no
I’m judging the tv producers
both had sexist elements put into the show
voyager managed to work around it
and the enterprise article is bait
Not that I think going straight to the source will sway you, but...
Brannon Braga:
It was late, but I was so excited [...] He [Rick Berman] really liked the idea but he had the stroke of genius, 'Make it a Borg babe.'
Jeri Ryan:
I knew exactly what I was in for when I had my first costume fitting. Clearly my character was added to the show for sex appeal, which remains the one way to get attention very quickly. I don't think it's the only way to get viewers to watch strong women, but it worked.
So no, "spandex are very scifi" doesn't hold a lot of water in this case.
Whoa TV producers have sex-brained politics and just want mass appeal, you don't say?
Doesn't change the fact Voyager still did better on this issue, and the article says a lot about how a boys club mentality was embedded into Enterprise.
I read their responses. I don’t understand how Star Trek Enterprise relates to Me Too and being a “Man’s Man” Star Trek. What are they trying to say?
Vulcan in booty shorts.
As much as "Me Too" was supposed to be about ridding the industry of sexual harassment (and worse), it also had knock-on effects in terms of storytelling, cast composition, etc.
I don't think it's controversial to say that "Enterprise" was not terribly progressive by modern standards (or, in my opinion, the standards of the time) when it came to female representation in particular.
By such standards, the Original Series (#TOS) seems positively regressive. I don't mean to defend this, but I'm guessing that, at the time, it was perceived that Enterprise needed to fit into that regression.
Hmm, I don't know about that. It seems less to me like them trying to "match" TOS, and more like a continuation of the trends established on late-period "Voyager"...
I do recall that Enterprise was hyped as a response to the demands from (mostly male) fans who wanted a ‘return to exploration’, less ‘magic technology’ and implicitly ‘men doing stuff.’
The 1990s BBS hate of the women in leadership roles in the early seasons of Voyager was savage.
@ValueSubtracted I recall noticing the sexism on Enterprise. I don't recall noticing it on Voyager, which had two strong female characters. But I'm an old man raised in a more chauvinistic era--I might not notice.
Seven of Nine's suit was painted on
Yeah if they hadn't struck gold with Jeri Ryan that whole situation would have been seen in a whole different light. She and the writers pulled that decision out of the gutter.
I definitely noticed that.
I think Janeway and 7 were well written. B'elana was mostly just angry.
B’elana was mostly just angry.
I don't remember shit about B'elana , or much of Voyager characterisation except :
B'elana being mostly angry makes sense as a Klingon and an engineer. each facet isn't known for being sunshine on rainbows, combined, not exactly going to be a delight.
True enough.
7 and the EMH we're the best characters in the show, IMHO.
But what about Kess?
I read B'elana as a point that the chief engineer doesn't always need to be some composed nerd. Even a person with deep anger control issues, with interest in (Klingon) religion, can be a good fit for that position and can stand her ground to a literal Borg.
Plus ofc Janeway + B'elana and + 7 later, meant that most science-related decision were made by a group of women.
But as everyone on the cast, once 7 and doctor were out, the screentime was really compressed 😶
Jeri was local and would appear regularly at local cons :p
Awesome!
Enterprise is the only one that gets skipped every rewatch time. I'll just play the theme song once and move on.
it's been a long road...
It's a shame it was cancelled when it was. It really seemed like they had pulled their heads out of their asses by season 4.