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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net

It's dogshit

Hamas and Israeli hardliners are two sides of the same coin. The choice is not one hardline faction or the other; it is between fundamentalists and all those who still believe in the possibility of peaceful co-existence. There can be no compromise between Palestinian and Israeli extremists, who must be combatted with a full-throated defense of Palestinian rights that goes hand-in-hand with an unwavering commitment to the fight against anti-Semitism.

Utopian as this may sound, the two struggles are of a piece. We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorist attacks. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied territories. Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

both-sides zizek-theory

We can and should unconditionally defend US slave owners' property rights. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by enslaved people.

We can and should unconditionally support Nazi Germany's right to rid itself of undesirables. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by those placed in concentration camps.

Feel free to add your own

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[-] kristina@hexbear.net 59 points 1 year ago

zizek is a dumbass. hate how he constantly makes metaphors to SV. honestly anyone that does that needs to be thrown in a pit

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[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 54 points 1 year ago

Palestine has tried being peaceful, and was given sniper fire for the trouble.

[-] WhyEssEff@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Utopian as this may sound

yeah zizek, you're right, that is insanely utopian. nonsensical and completely detached from physical reality, if you would

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago

A toast to the troops. All the troops. Both sides.

[-] Rojo27@hexbear.net 48 points 1 year ago

What a long winded way of saying "both sides".

So he basically has the same nuanced understanding of the situation as my dad. Cool

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[-] Pisha@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago

Always a good sign when self-declared Hegelians/dialectical materialists start denying that something is a contradiction

[-] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 39 points 1 year ago

No country has a right to commit genocide for "self defense".

[-] Judge_Jury@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

terrorist attacks

Westoid ass

[-] regul@hexbear.net 38 points 1 year ago

We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself

Fucking why must we do this, Zizek?

For one, I reject any definition of "defense" that includes bombing territory you do not control. Attacking in retribution is what it is. Second, accepting Israel's right to "defend" itself can only occur if you accept the right of "Israel" (meaning a Jewish ethnostate at the eastern end of the Mediterranean) to be something that ought to exist in the first place. To do this is to accept Zionism on its face as some sort of axiom. Why should any self-proclaimed socialist accept any ethnostate? A society that does not accept all cultures as equal is not one that should be propped up or supported.

He also accepts the framing of "anyone opposed to Israel is an anti-semite", but takes the slightly more nuanced view that "anyone who supports Palestinian statehood is not necessarily an anti-Semite". How brave.

Anyway this is trash. Almost everyone now recognizes that letting white people draw lines on a map is a recipe for disaster except in the case of Israel for some reason.

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

For one, I reject any definition of "defense" that includes bombing territory you do not control. Attacking in retribution is what it is.

There are situations where a counter offensive is the only way to defend oneself, though that is definitely not the case for Israel

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[-] RedQuestionAsker2@hexbear.net 37 points 1 year ago

Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

Oh, so ideas are the things blocking things from change. Here, I thought it was the people with guns upholding an imperial project. If we just change people's minds, the conflict will be resolved. What a relief, that sounds way easier.

Did this guy ever even pretend to be a materialist or did lacan fry his brain from the outset?

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[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

It is honestly incredible that every single theorist I was introduced to in college social history (as an alternative to Marxist theorists) has turned out to be complete and utter dogshit.

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As bad as i imagined. Straight from the trash can zizek-ok

[-] logflume@hexbear.net 34 points 1 year ago

unwavering commitment to the fight against anti-Semitism.

when you definitely have a good understanding of zionism

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[-] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 34 points 1 year ago

Zizek should stick to hotdogs

[-] iie@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago
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[-] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 31 points 1 year ago

Hamas and Israeli hardliners are two sides of the same coin. The choice is not one hardline faction or the other; it is between fundamentalists and all those who still believe in the possibility of peaceful co-existence.

Bro why should there be "peaceful co-existence" between a people and an invading nation, the very existence of which in any capacity is contingent on the violent forceful displacement and genocide of the said people?

I thought this guy does his research? Doesn't he know about how Israel came to be, how it destroyed Palestine and relentlessly torments the survivors in a concentration camp hell? Has Zizek gone senile?

[-] a_blanqui_slate@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

Isn't peaceful coexistence the sort of premise of the one secular state solution that's the standard leftist line though?

[-] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Peaceful coexistence within a free Palestinian state, not "peaceful coexistence" of so-called two states or "peaceful coexistence" within an Israeli apartheid state. The possibility of peaceful coexistence only exists if Israel ceases to exist and the colonization stops, and I think it would be pretty generous to Zizek to assume that's what he meant here.

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[-] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

The Hamas militants have been following guidelines for treatment of prisoners of war, the IDF is the one that's been dropping bombs and firing tank rounds at the Israeli hostages.

[-] windowlicker@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorist attacks. But we also must unconditionally sympathize with the truly desperate and hopeless conditions faced by Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied territories. Those who think there is a “contradiction” in this position are the ones who are effectively blocking a solution.

we can and should unconditionally support a lion's right to defend itself from the person its eating. but we also must unconditionally sympathize with the conditions faced by the person being eaten by the lion. those who think there is a contradiction is blocking the solution!

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

I wasn’t expecting much, but goddamnit did he really have to go with the pogrom comparison? It’s beyond intellectually bankrupt, completely ignores the historical context of pogroms being against the disenfranchised, not committed by them. Using it here has serious “reverse racism” vibes.

[-] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 28 points 1 year ago

"Unconditionally" is not just an interchangeable synonym of "profoundly".

Words mean things.

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[-] Bloobish@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

That is nuclear waste tier of shit takes coming from Zizek

[-] sexywheat@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

How can such a smart man be so fucking stupid all the fucking time.

[-] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 30 points 1 year ago

Too much Lacan will do that to you. Many such cases

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[-] heartheartbreak@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

"You have to understand here, the HREAL antisemitism is not the idea that Jews cannot integrate into civilizations outside Israel and so forth. Rather the - and this will be controversial - solution to the Israel-Palestine contradiction is that we must support ONLY the hard-line Zionist and Islamist factions if we are to be impartial to reality."

Didn't even need to read the article as soon as I saw the title I knew it would be some stupid galaxy-brain shit

[-] plinky@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

70 years of negotiating yet isnreal still doing slow rolling ethnic cleansing. Support one state solution then dipshit

[-] Tachanka@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago

Azov Zizek strikes again

[-] DrCrustacean@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

Tired of this guy

[-] batsforpeace@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

cool, I read the first 3 words and got everything I needed from it, another careerist fence sitter

[-] cosecantphi@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Can someone explain to me why r/chapotraphouse seemed to fucking love this guy? Everything I hear from Zizek makes me think less and less of him

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[-] TheGamingLuddite@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

I'm not exaggerating when I say I clicked off after three words.

[-] bubbalu@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

Say it with me everyone! Postmodernists have nothing of value to contribute to theory or revolutionary action.

[-] FakeNewsForDogs@hexbear.net 20 points 1 year ago

Don't even know what to say about this guy anymore. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but the excerpt sounds like a generic western lib op-ed. Is this just what he does now? Goddamn, dude. Either his brain is cooked or he's on the CIA payroll now.

[-] lil_tank@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 year ago

I hope he creamed himself at least 10 times while writing this pseudo intellectual garbage caus that would be the only good thing that it would have brought to this world

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[-] Torenico@hexbear.net 17 points 1 year ago

We can and should unconditionally support Israel’s right to defend itself

No I don't think I will.

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this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
140 points (100.0% liked)

the_dunk_tank

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