this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2026
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Common sense goes a long way. Radicalism is always stupid.
Just eat meat once a week or month. Eat whatever in moderation.
Moderation is key.
Getting all meat eaters to cut intake by 50% is easier than getting 50% of meat eaters to turn vegan.
Arguably carnivores have already cut meat intake, at least red meat, to greater impact than vegetarians.
While I’m going by anecdote rather than data
Basically one fewer burger a week by 100 people has more impact than one person not eating meat at all
Even a switch from beef burger to chicken burger would have a substantial CO2 impact.
And that's a more reasonable way of thinking. I tried being a vegetarian and a vegan. Not compatible with my body and factoring in supplements, too expensive.
Thats not how world markets work though. 20% of meat eaters turning vegan would compound vegan movement more than 50% less meat consumed. The former grows vegan market explicitly while the latter just maybe shrinks the meat market only. You have consider availability, research and development, service, pop culture and the fact that we massive overconsume food so less consumption does not directly shrink the market in linear fashion.
True. The goal of less animal farming may just achieve cheaper meat prices. Probably some tarrif/subsidy policy is needed to actual reduce production.
How often do you eat babies?
Personally, I'm radically against eating babies.
Everything in moderation, including moderation. You've got to choose what you're radical about, lest it choose you.
So in your opinion they were doing a ridiculous roundabout way to assert "Use your best moral judgement?"
My money's on them never replying to agree or disagree with your guess at their intent.
I only eat them as eggs.
I'm a glutton for fish eggs.
Eat them up yum!
I have got 3 maybe-babies lying in my fridge rn.
I had no idea there was a market for eating human eggs. Seems like an extremely low Calorie:Cost ratio, but capitalism gonna capitalism I guess.
A moderate genocide will do, local centrist claims
You're doing a moderate genocide every time you change your diet or even the ph of your mouth. Those bacteria didn't consent to die
This approach isnt helping the cause, you can't conflate that responsibility to everyone. Guilt tripping is a Christian method
I will hold people responsible for their actions, that's not a radical thing. And about "Guilt tripping"... Well participating in a mass murder of living, feeling beings in a world where you don't have to do that in order to survive is very much a thing that people should feel guilt about, and I will not stop shaming them for doing so. You see, from my perspective, that would make me an accomplice.
I know it feels bad when you get reminded of the horrors of meat industry. You should feel bad, that's a good thing. But your feelings have much less weight than the actual countless lives lost for nothing.
Just for curiositys sake: what do you think will help the cause then, if I should not even speak about it because I could hurt peoples feelings? It (participating in the mass murder of living, feeling beings) is an active choice that most people in the world can choose to not do. Like fuck man, if I should just smile and nod in agreement I dunno...
Again, I do realize that blaming feels bad. That is the point.
I never said you shouldn't talk about it. I didn't even say you personally shouldn't talk the way you currently are. But do you understand that cultural change doesn't happen just because you shout and scream at people who disagree with you? Even when you're 100 percent right.
You CANNOT blame regular people as much as you do. People are uneducated, evolutionarily primed to be manipulated, and defensive. I personally do not feel bad when I am blamed for that, I know it is bad, I agree. I already know I should eat even less meat than I do now, and slowly but steadily i am doing it. But it wasnt the shame that put me on this, it was the empathy, it was the curiosity, it was the EXACT OPPOSITE of shame that brought me on the path.
Shame is for Christians. It brings Christian results. Us vs them. The radical vegan approach to communication enables the idea that veganism is ridiculous, not because it is wrong, but because it seems like its the only communication that gets through.
You feel righteous anger, rightly so, but that anger when aimed at regular people you are trying (supposedly) to convince,just makes veganism seem a tantrum instead of a mission. The way you speak seems to me like you're feeding your ego, not like you are saving the world.
And what are you feeding it with? Other people's shame. By definition, not a vegan source.
Pardon my joke, but I felt like biting back since you took my honest attempt at communicating as just another excuse to bark and release your anger.
Your fight is just, your energy is right. But "making people feel bad" isnt really a method. Just venting. I dont know the blueprint for a better way, but telling you this is my way of looking for help in searching one.
Hey, thanks for responding.
First of all, I admit that I do get emotional on the subject. And I do realize that when I lose the calmness, it really is counterproductive on the cause. Here again was a great example. I don't think I was unreasonable or "screaming in anger" when I initially disagreed with with the original point that "radicalism is always stupid" (hey, isn't that a radical thought to begin with :P )
But my second post was just pure barking, as you said, and I was venting at you. Sorry for that. :/
It's difficult to be calm, when you get constantly made fun of, get challenged and so forth. And it seems like whenever I speak about the subject, it's always a bad thing. I have opted to not talking about it IRL for a couple of years now, and it's frustrating, and that frustration sometimes overflows and I'll get all emotional like here. It feels like I CANNOT say to an individual that "meat eating bad" without then being accused of being an asshole. That feels also wrong, and I'm at a loss as to what to do here.
You had some really good points, and I'll retreat to contemplate them. Thanks for being reasonable when I wasn't.
Hey, dont mention it, I totally get it. This society primes us for the reaction you had, we are constantly ready for a fight, and it is not your fault, it is our conditioning. Finding the way to dispel that curse is the way we get to people's hearts.
Just a side not, I absolutely do not think that radicalism is always stupid, or stupid at all. "Deep roots are not reached by frost", we need conviction and strong ideals, and to further clarify, I do think that veganism is the end goal for a truly advanced society and a healed world and people.
The point is just that to communicate radical ideas we do not need to be in constant anger. Most people respond well when you engage with them and their differences with curiosity, asking questions instead of directly challenging their ways right away. Our communication must be like water, seeking the path of least resistance, yes, but always ending at the sea or a lake. People already know (in some level) that their lifestyles are wrong. That isnt the Epiphany. The epiphany is helping them build up the idea that it is not to late, that they are not irredeemable, and that change is possible.
People do not want to feel irredeemable and as you said, when talking to Normies abt veganism ppl get defensive. It is largely the fault of propaganda, but more critically, it's the shame angle that always, always fails. Responsibility is a different concept, and it melds better in the mind
The only way to change is with grace, compassion, and when needed, severity and discipline, distributed sparingly.
You have to imagine current human society as a collective made of children, fragile, sensitive, impulsive. They will mirror what they perceive, despite your intentions
I hope this helps, and thank you for reading my comment and being graceful
<3 You're cool.