sorry
this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2026
70 points (97.3% liked)
Chapotraphouse
14394 readers
504 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't really understand this point, and find it a bit dramatic and self-flagellating. You say "we shouldn't be allowed to become Chinese citizens" because we stayed in the imperial core rather than "taking the hard and painful but correct action of emigrating". So which is it? Should Westerners be allowed to emigrate to China or should they not? How long do you have to have lived in the West before you forfeit your right to emigrate, as punishment for not having emigrated soon enough?
Not trying to be a dick, I just really fail to see how this kind of defeatism/self-hatred helps anyone.
Self-flagellation is exactly what this is. It's not like every Chinese citizen is a principled Marxist either. They're random bozos just like me, who just happened to be born in a country with a competent socialist government, while I was born into a country led by bloodthirsty ghouls who are fully intent on killing the world to make number go up.
Acting like being born into the imperial core is some kind of original sin for which one must repent is esoteric nonsense. Do you want Nuremberg trials for Canadian bus drivers?
I highly agree. And to add on to your points one could get easily argue that staying and doing everything you can to try to build a socialist revolution in said imperial core is the correct action
Yeah, it's emigration, not getting into heaven.
People be like "Chinese is the hardest language to learn and your brain is made of iron now" but you could do it. They offer classes.
"They're treat you weird." THEY TREAT ME WEIRD HERE!! There are people over here who notice my racial ambiguity but then they also think I'm gross because of it!
You could get a job in a multinational and apply then network in China. You could meet someone on a dating/language exchange/penpal app. You could network from the west. They're still just people. They're still just jobs in cities.
They have a visa process. They offer flights out there that are just in a different part of the airport. Your phone works over there. Your money still spends (likely better than it does at home).
I'm not familiar with their process of visa -> citizenship and I assume it's difficult. But I'm sure you could live good, be prosperous, make friends, and roll with the punches (if not retire there after a dignified career) with extra paperwork. 1 in 1000 people get a black belt in BJJ, but a higher proportion than that enjoy getting a workout at the gym.
You can be as Chinese as you want to be.
Yeah because the single mom working 2 jobs to barely makes ends meet is CHOOSING not to emigrate. It's not that she can't even afford a fucking passport much less moving to another country. This position you have is reactionary. A true marxist understands that the proletarians in a capitalist nation are VICTIMS! You seem to be under the impression that everyone in the Imperial core is having a good time. The Imperial core has millions of people living in abject poverty. The imperial core has homelessness. The imperial core is not a paradise for the people within it. It is hellish for over half the population. Many of those people are reactionaries too and hold racist, anti-communist, or other problematic views. This is because they have been endlessly propagandized to. The job of those who know better is to educate them. Not condemn them. When the USSR took over East Germany did it go "Well they were all Germans in Germany so they don't deserve to live under communism now"? No. It developed a socialist state on the ruins of Naziism. It educated people to the best of its ability. Every worker being free means every worker and we must do the work of re-educating even the most vile and reactionary among them.
Get off the internet and read some Lenin.
(Edit to add: What do you mean traitor to whiteness btw? Are you saying any POC in America that doesn't emigrate is loyal to whiteness?)
I have not read enough Lenin and I will fully and shamefully admit to this fact, though my total is not zero. What I have read however is Settlers, which elucidated clearly the contradiction and deception behind the idea of the white "working class" in the west. Judging by your edit it was not clear the group I was speaking of and I will also fully admit to that.
While as marxists we must always be aware of how racial perceptions play into class dynamics and keep in mind intersectionality that does not mean we should devolve onto a simplistic race based categorization of society. That is the realm of fascism NOT socialism. Marx was white. Lenin was white. Stalin was white. We judge people based on their actions not their race. There are white homeless people in the US. Are they not victims of capitalism? There are black millionaires like Kanye West who are out and about fascists. Are they not bourgeoisie? The world does not fit neatly into tidy little boxes. People cannot be judged by adding up their demographic information.
I don't really know what this means. It has never (in my lifetime at least) been easy to emigrate to China from the West, and it again seems very dramatic and a bit idealist to pretend that what should compel people to emigrate is some kind of socialist ethic and deliberate rejection of money, rather than material realities like standard of living, possibility of education and work etc. all of which will presumably only compel more and more westerners as the West deteriorates and China flourishes.
Maybe I'm taking you literally when you're doing some sort of Disco Elysium style poetry, in which case, carry on.
ah, youre a BE fan. that explains it all
gross, bad empanada
Framing it like a choice like China is like "please move here we'll pay all costs included"