this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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chapotraphouse

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Seriously, I wanna fucking leave my house every fucking day. They work everyday, all day and are exploited for their work, have bad health that they have no time to take care of and are so devoted to defending millionaires for "creating jobs" that they cannot accept that what creates value is labour. They hate the government and see it as bad, I agree, the bourgeois democracy is terrible, but when I say that, they don't believe in it. State owned equals inherently bad, seriously, its so hard to see the truth and ALMOST EVERYONE around you is a chud, a lib or at best a soc dem. And thank god for soc dems here, because at least they aren't anti-communist, at least some of them. Every fucking time I have to argue with a lib, I want to organize harder

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[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago

People get very invested in things. Call "sunk cost fallacy" or just a lifetime of all pervading propaganda... It is particularly difficult for older people to fundamentally change their worldview. Even when things begin to get more difficult under that system, they double down on the belief that the system is sepf-evidently right, it's just that someone must be fucking with it to make it not work like it used to.

[–] plinky@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

have they calculated how much they pay in taxes and how much they pay their boss?

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If they did see how much they could be paid...

Honestly, they prbly just see the wages as a reflection of their worth....

[–] chickentendrils@hexbear.net 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's possible to break through, but they'd have to understand the extent of US criminality around the world over the last 80 years.

Of course the constant work and lack of time to contemplate reality is part of the propaganda apparatus.

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's pretty hard. They say shit like business owners generate jobs, and get mad when you explain that's not true. It's funny how they can't explain why I'm wrong, and just say that they know from experience, what experience? The alienanting work under capitalism? What part of the horrible current situation and the darker and darker looking future do you not see?

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Now we're at lib discourse 101....

What type of libs are they? Bleeding heart social libs (socially progressive, and economically reformist), the composed neolib, or the fash-adjacent libertarian? (the latter has to do with settler colonialism or smthn)

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Closer to fash adjacent libertarian, but like conservative on almost everything except for "free market" stuff

[–] Red_Eclipse@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah my dad is quite the chud too. I still love him though, but it's hard to connect with someone who doesn't live in the same plane of reality as you. With the fascists he gets his news from, they always start with a grain of truth. So at least we were both able to talk shit about the military industrial complex the other day. But for him, he thinks it's just a matter of voting in the right guy to "drain the swamp" and make things "constitutional" again. For me, as a straight up communist, I don't even think our settler colonial genocidal slave state even has a right to exist. But I think he'd have a shit fit if he knew I was actually communist lol.

It's really sad because I can see the ways his programming has harmed himself and our family, and mostly himself, but I don't know if he'll ever be able to see that.

[–] hungrybread@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

With the fascists he gets his news from, they always start with a grain of truth

Even Rush Limbaugh (may he rest in piss) used this strategy. It's honestly kind of impressive how right wing personalities can segue from easily agreeable things to outright conspiracies in just a few breaths.

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

"The government sucks, we must put this sock puppet of the bourgeoisie in the presidency"

[–] NephewAlphaBravo@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

The signature chud propaganda move is saying true things for 30% of a sentence and then falling off a cliff.

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

It's really hard to connect in anything that touches work or anything remotely related to politics. Getting news from fash types during your whole life must really make a number on someones head. He is nice and we do talk for a long time occasionally, but holy shit is he a chud

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

And thank god for soc dems here, because at least they aren't anti-communist, at least some of them. Every fucking time I have to argue with a lib, I want to organize harder

What socdems?

Revolutionary social democrats from Lenin's time? (There was a time, when "socdems" were synonyms for communist)

That being said, yeah... your parents are a bit iffy... you ever wonder if they have a stake in acting the way they do, because the alternative is just too scary?

(like yk, westerners like to "hate" their gov't, but seem to defend it, against its foreign policy enemies all the time; in their consciousness, the western gov't that keeps on exploitin' them at least keeps the treats flowin' in their economy)

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

(like yk, westerners like to "hate" their gov't, but seem to defend it, against its foreign policy enemies all the time; in their consciousness, the western gov't that keeps on exploitin' them at least keeps the treats flowin' in their economy)

hate the government because it's objectively bad, but have no empathy for foreigners who they don't consider human. I really don't think people actually understand unequal exchange and look at it and decide it's good.

Literally no ideology. What they want will change on a whim.

That's why calling out hypocrisy in Chuds is lib tail chasing. They only care about 'winning'.

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh mostly just my friends who are left leaning but not radicalized. They're not very involved in politics, organized socdems are horrible

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

And thank god for soc dems here, because at least they aren't anti-communist,

All current socdems, which we mainly regard as capitalist liberal-adjacent and thus right-deviationist, are what we call as part of "anti-communists" since they're more interested in preserving capitalism with safety nets.

Would you just say they're just less anti-communist, compared to others...

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I guess, or maybe not call these people socdems.

[–] GeorgeZBush@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

I feel the same. Yesterday I came home and found an Epoch Times on the coffee table. It's so over.

[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My dad watches steven crowder everyday and has the mug (that he broke)

We grew up poor, small house and horrible school district and him being stupid i realize has completely ruined my life.

Theres a part of me that understands he went through a lot himself and he did his best but hes such a repulsive and stubborn person that im having a hard time whether i should cut him off completely or not.

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's hard to just cut off people, especially family. But if having contact with them is making your life worse, do it, don't suffer through that.

[–] Mokey@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Hes not that bad but minimal contact is all i can do

[–] xkyfal18@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Same here. I love my dad, but he’s insanely reactionary and a virulent racist. I have heated “debates” almost every day at dinner time, where he never addresses any of my points and just says I’m wrong and proceeds to shill for one of the many right wing parties in my country. This shit is exhausting

[–] Alisu@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

Oh, I feel you, its exactly the same here, at least my dad isn't racist, but as for anything else, specially trans people he's not great. Still love him, but it's hard sometimes

This, but instead of my parents it's my childhood friends I've known most of my life.