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First meme (hopefully good) (lemm.ee)
submitted 4 months ago by Val@lemm.ee to c/leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 105 points 4 months ago

Step 1: hit snooze

Step 2: use the extra time to build dual power and/or electoral reform.

Note: The time to build an alternative to the DNC for 2024 was no less than 4 years ago. The time to start building the coalition for 2028 starts no later than December 2024.

Note: the time to build dual power is any day you can afford the time, acumen, and experiense.

Step 3: hit snooze again.

Voting doesn't change anything. Not voting kills us.

We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

[-] MalachaiConstant@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago

Voting doesn't change anything. Not voting kills us.

We vote to buy time. We use that time to perform direct action.

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

This is what I've been trying to tell people, especially young lefties.

It just does not make sense to me why you would look at a broken system which gives a massive advantage to one party, see that the people trying to fix the system all belong to the other party, and arrive at the conclusion that both parties are equally at fault and the only solution is to throw your hands up in invisible protest.

It would be one thing if they just said they didn't care, but they seem to be convinced they are actually able to affect change this way.

It's like finding yourself in a fist fight and seeing your buddy just standing there laughing.

[-] Liz@midwest.social 11 points 4 months ago

We need to get ourselves some Approval Voting and some kind of proportional representation (linked is one way you can use approval in a proportional election)!

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago

Approval voting, STAR voting, Ranked-choice voting- I don't care, just get me out of this first-past-the-pole nightmare!

[-] Liz@midwest.social 3 points 4 months ago

Yeah I agree, arguably the proportional representation part is more important, but it's easier to start small and then repurpose your organization for bigger goals. I push for approval because:

  1. practically anything is way better than FPTP

  2. It requires zero voter education to implement

  3. it can easily be adapted to any kind of winner system

  4. A whole bunch of other stuff that gets into graphs and voting criterion and shit like that

[-] Uiop@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago

I really dont understand americans, they are so proud of their weapons yet can't control them so theres a school-shooting every month or so. But when there is a grown-up (politician/capitalist) they suddenly dont have their guns anymore?

It seems shooting kids is easier then shooting the evil people. Not that I would ever do either...

just saying, dead people cannot maintain a broken system.

[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago

I really dont understand americans

Politicians strategically used gun rights as a wedge issue to ensure that the segment of the population with the most guns are more likely to be intensely loyal to the fascist continent of our political class. Furthermore, our law enforcement has more and even bigger guns.

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[-] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 50 points 4 months ago

You can’t fix the system when its working as intended. The system needs to be torn down and rebuilt

[-] Val@lemm.ee 29 points 4 months ago

I needed a small and quippy option for the meme, but I agree, in this context that would qualify as a "fix".

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 months ago

This is an original? Props! We rarely have these on Lemmy... It's good as well!

[-] Val@lemm.ee 18 points 4 months ago

Yeah. I made It in inkscape. Happy you like it.

[-] casmael@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

Wow cool meme bro x

[-] Smorty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 months ago

No way! Inkscape is sick! I gotta learn it more... Only made some buttons with it for now...

[-] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

So what's the solution here? I've heard a lot of stuff about how stuff should be, but the options are not particularly promising. As I see it:

  1. vote local, wait for change to filter up (counterpoint: that's over a long time range, and for every incremental change it seems like there's a Citizen's United, Roe vs. Wade, and PATRIOT Act working in BIG ways in the opposite direction)

  2. vote Biden and try to push him left (counterpoint: hahahaha.... oh, sorry, I mean yeah, it has worked to a certain degree when it doesn't cost him anything or when literally the rest of the Democratic world is against him like with Israel, and only to a small degree, but major changes? Good luck)

  3. Full on revolution (counterpoint: most of the armed and violent people are on the fascist side and have been giddy over the prospect of Civil War 2.0 since Obama took office)

  4. just hold your nose and vote Biden, press and support the Democratic Party to block ways for The Fascists to get more power... register Republican in super red areas to push them away from Fascism, and generally focus on stopping the Fascists first and if we can get back to where we were in the 90s/early 00s, focus on making those big changes. But focus on stopping the Fascists before you lose everything (counterpoint: that is exactly what the people in power want, to give a unending battle to keep what you have so you can't push for more, and instead lose it all by inches).

  5. Don't vote, let the Fascists burn it all down, and pick up the pieces to make our Utopia from the ashes like the Federation after the Eugenic Wars. (Counterpoint: ...do I need to point out how silly this is? If the Fascists even manage to burn it down instead of doing what Fascists do and expand the crazy and make the world a battleground, the type of people who "rise from the ashes" are rarely the good, Democratic, peace-loving kind. Sorry Star Trek)

I'm not seeing good options, so if anyone can say another option, or how my conclusions are incorrect, I'd love to get new information. But it seems like choosing the best of bad options, and anything but voting Biden (and Democrats) is the path to suffering. As bad as it is, it can always get worse.

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

And how many people are you willing to kill to do that?

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Saying "the system is working as intended" is wrong on so many levels. The system was cobbled together and you're relieving the ones abusing the system of their blame.

[-] Jentu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 4 months ago

Bad cop vs Good cop vs burn the precinct down and protect your own neighborhood.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 16 points 4 months ago

Love it, though would have put "abolish the system" rather than "fix the system" myself, since that implies trying to work within the existing framework, rather than completely outside of it.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 15 points 4 months ago

That is a fair point. Although there is a point to be made that "the system" is democracy and overthrowing a government that doesn't represent the population is a part of the system. But I agree that most people probably don't think that way.

If you can think of any improvements feel free to make changes and upload your own version.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 3 points 4 months ago

I see what you're saying, and I think it would probably appeal more to those with left leanings who aren't actually anarchists (yet 🤞), because it isn't as big a shock to the system to think about fixing a thing they know vs abolishing that thing and starting something completely unfamiliar and most likely still foreign to them (even as an anarchist, thinking outside of the indoctrination, and constructs I've/we've been socialised with since birth can be a challenge), but then I'm also a big believer in not coddling people in to change - facing and sitting with the discomfort of seeing the box we're kept in and starting to think outside of it is a huge and really important part of unlearning what we know and even how we are, so personally I generally favour blunt and to the point lol

I think having these conversations in the comments can be more helpful than posting an alternative, because the people your meme speaks to can read on and hopefully broaden their views!

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[-] CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

How often do you see toppled democracies get replaced with something awesome? That seems like a pretty big risk.

[-] Plastic_Ramses@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

Find the leftist candidate.

Oh, wait you cant?

Better post propaganda that promotes a fascist. That will fix everything. Yup.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago

If you can't find a leftist candidate, fuckin be the leftist candidate.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 16 points 4 months ago

I probably should have put a check on the blue and remove the third option. That would have made it clearer.

Nothing wrong with snoozing. Just don't expect it to fix anything.

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[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 10 points 4 months ago

It's like those websites and applications that ask you:

Hey do you want to turn on this bullshit feature?

[Yes] [Ask me again later]
[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 8 points 4 months ago

How?

[-] Val@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

If you don't mind reading there is a lot of more specific questions and answers in this FAQ:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq-full

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 17 points 4 months ago

That's great info and I'll check it out. But I mean in regard to this meme: what do we do now? Because this meme seems to be addressing the 2024 general election in the US and it makes it seem like there's 3 voting options. But to my knowledge, there isn't a popular 3rd party that meets progressive or anarchistic values. So is this suggesting not to vote? Other direct action like a strike? And if so how does that address the issue of the election this brings up?

[-] Val@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

The third box is smaller to reflect that it isn't a "real" option. I only added it because I thought only the two wouldn't be fitting for this community (and also complaining without providing an alternative is not useful). It's more of an open question. eg "You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism."

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 "What do anarchist do instead of voting?" and J.7.4 "What would a social revolution involve?". These might help answer your questions.

In general there is no easy solution. For Americans to fix their system they need to fight for real democracy. I think trying to get rid of FPTP is a good start. However I do not put much faith in any election reform succeeding. My personal (european (although it shouldn't matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

I made this meme to just point out something I thought a lot about when scrolling through lemmy and that's that voting isn't enough because the best you can do is delay the inevitable. You can vote, but that won't make a meaningful change.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 8 points 4 months ago

It’s more of an open question. eg “You need to do something else because voting will not stop fascism.”

In the FAQ there are questions like J.2.9 “What do anarchist do instead of voting?

So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election? Because I feel that's incredibly short-sighted and damaging. I agree with your points of working to get ranked choice voting and other measures passed in all states quickly. But people still need to vote against the obvious fascist candidate in the short term. Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn't do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for. And I'm in a privileged class. Vulnerable people have to do so much more to stay safe and a second Trump presidency will get thousands killed. No one's going to have time to campaign against FPTP when they are organizing just to stay safe from government and militia persecution. If Trump gets elected again, it's pretty much over. And anyone eager for a civil war hasn't looked out enough to see what hell that is.

Anarchist Library: At its most basic, voting implies agreement with the status quo.

This is silly and reductive. Voting is damage control. Not voting is handing one of your only means of change and your voice away to your worst enemies. I'll look into it more, but that's a false premise to start on. It's idealistic to the point of self-destruction.

You can vote, but that won’t make a meaningful change.

Medicine doesn't stop death forever, either. And until we can cure the fascism or put in enough barriers to prevent it, we still must survive in the short term. Diatribe over.

My personal (european (although it shouldn’t matter)) opinion is that americans should try do build communities outside of government control so when things go bad they have someone to rely on.

Do you have any suggestions on what that looks like? Because Americans have all the same communities and groups Europeans do: unions (lesser extent), religious groups, community organizations (school based, local government), LGBT+ organizations, local political orgs, hobby groups, etc. But I don't see how that directly helps matters. They will provide community and potentially safe spaces, but only if they aren't infiltrated. And if there's a fascist government, there likely won't be any groups outside government control. They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don't control. So I guess I don't understand what type of groups you are referring to.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

So this was an undercurrent I wanted to address: are you suggesting that Americans not vote in the 2024 general election?

As the meme says voting blue means a 4 year snooze. I am not telling anyone whether they should vote or not. Just pointing out how I see the current election. The points you make are sensible and I think if I were in the USA I would vote because of the reasons you listed.

I'm copying some quotes from the FAQ that I think fit in this conversation.
But considering the state of the US I think that at the moment voting is a useful tactic to buy time for organizing, not a solution.

J.2.8: anarchists don’t just say “don’t vote”, we say “organise” as well.

J2.5 last paragraph: [...] anarchists urge abstentionism in order to encourage activity, not apathy. Not voting is not enough, and anarchists urge people to organise and resist as well.

And when it comes to the last paragraph I must admit I am short of ideas. All of the groups you listed have a chance of helping, organization doesn't need to start with a political group, once you have a group together you can start talking about anarchist organization and see how people react.

As an anarchist I believe that revolution starts with the people. Get enough people together with a common goal (or a shared dream if you want to be poetic) and you will have a revolution. This might seem pointless since you're so small, but every revolution needs to start somewhere. And I believe only a revolution can fix the USA right now.

There are also some anarchist orgs like http://iww.org. I wish I knew more.

They will seize control of everything and make illegal anything they don't control.

That's why it's important to create these groups now. Once the fascist are in power it's too late.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 2 points 4 months ago

Damage control is important because if Trump gets elected, no one is going to have time to organize. The last 4 years I only occasionally check the news or when I see stuff on Lemmy. When Trump was President, I was checking the general news feeds multiple times a day to ensure that he didn’t do yet another insane and damaging thing that I had to immediately plan for.

I think it's worthwhile to point out that keeping yourself aware of what you're organizing against is possibly the bare minimum of organizing.

I'm not advocating for a trump presidency, but I think this gives some credence to what accelerationists are saying

I wish more people who are concerned about the 2024 election would take that anxiety and join progressive groups now, not wait until after the election, because not only do you have the motivation to take action now it's also a good way to push the conversation further left and put pressure on the 2024 candidates. I know my local DSA chapter has seen an uptick in new members, but I am quite certain I see a lot of people on here pulling their hair out over the stress but refusing to join a cause.

If you're spending your time insisting people vote in order to kick the can down the road, then you should also be spending your time organizing for the cause now and not waiting until the crisis is postponed.

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

What's the third icon?

[-] Val@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago

Anarchism. But it is meant to signify any kind of leftist ideology. I just chose anarchism.

[-] femtech@midwest.social 5 points 4 months ago

Just looks like republicans and not caring at the same time aka Accelerationism.

[-] Val@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago

Not my fault USA decided to use red for the conservatives, even though red as been the socialists' color since we began.

[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 months ago

The Republicans use Red B/C lots of Lincoln's supporters read Marx.

Then the parties changed.

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this post was submitted on 17 May 2024
485 points (87.1% liked)

Lefty Memes

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