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Is a lighter effective because it's on fire? Or just because it's hot?

If you made a lighter that was just as hot as another lighter, would it work just as well even if it had no fire?

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[-] honeyontoast@lemmy.world 40 points 4 months ago

Cars have (or had, I don't know if they're still included) an electric lighter that you pushed in to heat up. It was basically a little metal ring that got really hot. So I think it probably is the heat.

I remember my friend also had a plasma lighter, that unsurprisingly used plasma to light things. It made a really scary noise in the wind and hurt like a motherfucker to touch. We were 18 and dumb.

[-] DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca 20 points 4 months ago

It's the heat and no, cars don't come with lighters anymore. The power sockets are still there but they even come with warning labels to not try use a lighter in them. No idea what happens if you try.

[-] Junkers_Klunker@lemmy.world 29 points 4 months ago

Itll melt the plastic around the socket as they arent designed to tolerate heat anymore.

[-] DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago

Thanks for the answer though I've seen some metal ones still with the warning label.

[-] charles@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Could be chromed plastic

[-] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago
[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago
[-] zephr_c@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Driving off a cliff is even dumber still. Its not a dumbest thing contest though

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -3 points 4 months ago

It wasn't until you showed up.

[-] zephr_c@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Nah, that was all you. Nobody said smoking was a good idea. Just that it's stupid to create a fire hazard to make a car 0.0001% more profitable. You barged in with a weird non sequitur. I was just pointing it out.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

It's called humor, brainiac.

[-] zephr_c@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

Was that what it was supposed to be? Don't quit your day job.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

It's OK, not everybody has the capacity to understand the nuances of language.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You don't have to light a cigarette with a lighter. What's truly dumb is forgetting how useful fire is...

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Yeah, fire is super handy for all sorts of things while I'm driving a car.

[-] MotoAsh@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

Ah yes, why have the ability to do anything you don't immediately need to do?! I am a smart person!

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago

We're talking about lighters in cars, buddy.

[-] wiccan2@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago

My car seems to be from the transition period, it has a lighter but no ash trays in the front, only in the back.

I guess it's fine for the kids to smoke while watching the in built DVD players but not the driver and front passenger /s

[-] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

There may have been an accessory package available that gave you a cup-shaped ashtray to put in the cupholder

[-] Deconceptualist@lemm.ee 33 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Lots of people are mentioning old electric car lighters, but not why things burn. The answer is the fire triangle, which just means you need 3 factors: fuel, oxidizer, and heat. Oxygen is obviously the most common oxidizer (hence the name) and basically everywhere in the atmosphere. And any substance that undergoes a sufficiently exothermic reaction will produce enough heat to propagate that oxidation as a chain reaction (i.e. fire) once enough heat is present to start it.

Not all fuels are equal. Ones that burn slowly will smoulder, while the ones that burn extremely fast explode. Too many unintended and destructive fires occur because people don't realize when fuel sources are susceptible to heat (even a tiny spark), such as dust in a grain silo, a pile of oily rags, or even a compost heap (which builds up heat due to bacteria breaking down the contents).

But yes, back to the point, lighters just need to create heat because presumably you already have fuel and oxygen available.

[-] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

Farenheit 451 is a reference to the autoignition temperature of paper. It's a flameless ignition. Fire isn't necessary, just really good at concentrating very high temperature gases into the thing you want to burn. Another good visualization of the fire triangle is burning wood in a campfire vs in a kiln to make coal. By keeping away most fresh air in a kiln, the wood burns differently - higher temps, less material consumption, and the flames only appear at the openings. That's useful for metal melting

[-] amotio@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Yes, that is how car lighters work. They use electricity to heat up small coil untill its red hot. Its mostly used to light cigarettes.

Even without electricity you can create fire: https://www.wikihow.com/Start-a-Fire-with-Sticks

Lighter is just portable and more convenient way of doing it.

[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 11 points 4 months ago

My lighter uses an electric arc, great for cigarettes, doesn't seem to like weed as much.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I’ve wondered about those for camping. I can see how the electric arc would be perfect where you have something like an edge of paper, but I did wonder if it would still be effective with other fuels.

[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 4 months ago

So intrusive thoughts won while I was in the bathroom and I grabbed a square of toilet paper. Boy oh boy will it light paper on fire.

[-] AA5B@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago
[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 4 months ago

I haven't tried setting paper on fire directly, to be honest. Being that it's so hot but also a localized heat I suspect it might be hard to get flames from, just embers.

[-] bizzle@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

I figured it prob won't like bowls but I assume joints are fine?

[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 4 points 4 months ago

I think it's the more uneven burn. It's got an articulating neck type thing so it'll get into a bowl just fine it just doesn't want to light it, and joints it just kinda fucks up the end and maybe gets a half-assed light.

[-] bizzle@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

That's so sad 😢

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

I’ve lit incense using an electric stove. Also I have a lighter that uses an electric arc

[-] Deestan@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Cars used to come with non-fire cigarette lighters as a safety measure.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_auxiliary_power_outlet

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I have an electric lighter that uses lightning to ignite stuff. So no, fire isn't needed. Just enough heat to ignite what you want to burn. Great for cigarettes; not very good for lighting the bowl of a pipe tho.

I also am old enough to remember cigarette lighters in cars. They just made a metal coil red hot and you touched it to your cigarette to light it.

Friction is also enough. Ever heard of starting a fire by rubbing two sticks together? Or flint and steel? This is just using friction to generate enough heat to ignite kindling (though the flint and steel makes it easier since the flint gets way hotter and creates sparks much faster than the stick method). This is also why meteors burn up entering the atmosphere and why space craft need all that ceramic plating to survive re-entry: the friction of the air due to the speed of the object is enough to get super heated.

[-] abbadon420@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

Depends on what you want to use the lighter for. People mentioned car lighters that work with just heat, but if you just want to light a gas stove, than a spark is enough. There are lighters that do just that, or you can even use an emptied regular lighter.

[-] perviouslyiner@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

The flints you get for "primitive technology" camping are great for lighting gas flames - just scrape them to make a load of sparks

[-] Vinny_93@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

Essentially the 12 volt cigarette lighters in cars are fireless. There's also plasma-like lighters that work with electricity.

So yeah, do they work just as well? Depends. Fire lighters are a handful in windy conditions. Electric lighters are less efficient but they work just fine.

[-] Ephera@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago

Burning is a chemical reaction which requires relatively much activation energy to start, but then produces enough energy to keep activating (i.e. sustaining) itself.

You just need to deliver enough activation energy to a given point on the material, which you can do with a flame, but also for example an electric spark, a glowing metal or a magnifying glass under sunlight.

You can also put the entire flammable material into an electric oven and slowly turn up the heat, until you reach this temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature

[-] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago

Fire is just the result of a self sustaining exothermic reaction - there's no inherent "fireness" that makes heat from a fire different from all other heat sources.

[-] Sakychu@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Something quite interesting in relation to that is that it takes a lot more energy to start a wood fire if you would use a heating coil instead of an open flame. Why? There are only about 4 papers about that and they are all old and the methodology weren't up to modern standards so take that with a grain of salt

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 4 months ago

I'm kind of guessing it, but perhaps it's because of heat conduction. Fire pretty much directs the heat to one direction (the top), while the coil probably spreads it evenly.

[-] solrize@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

There are two kinds of electric handheld lighters, the plasma arc kind and the resistance kind. The resistance kind isn't as popular but they still exist. They are similar to car lighters, electric stove coils, etc. I don't know whether a plasma arc would be considered fire, but the heated wire is probably not.

[-] NABDad@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

I have an electric lighter that we use for lighting candles. It charges via USB and generates a short spark between two contacts to light the candle.

[-] Aidinthel@reddthat.com 2 points 4 months ago

If you google "electric lighter" you can see a wide variety of lighters that work by either making an arc of electricity or just getting really hot.

[-] muelltonne@feddit.de 2 points 4 months ago

There are electrical lighters, which work by providing an arc of electricity. And back in the days, I used to light cigarettes on my electrical stove when the lighter was empty.

[-] cali_ash@lemmy.wtf 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah, pretty much. Just look at the old cigeratte lighters in car. No flame needed.

[-] Jakdracula@lemmy.world -2 points 4 months ago

Fire is a chemical reaction. Oily rags and compost can self combust.

Also, earth is the only known planet where fire can burn.

this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
78 points (94.3% liked)

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