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By 2020, being vegan was cool. A few years later, it faltered. So what happened? I sit down with nutrition scientist Simon Hill to unpack the truth about plant-based meat, protein and supplements, and how eating plants got tangled up with masculinity and politics.
generated summary
Why the plant-based movement collapsed
- By 2020 plant-based eating had become mainstream, but the cultural mood shifted sharply afterward. The nutrition science did not reverse; public enthusiasm moved toward animal-based and carnivore diets.
- Beyond Meat became a symbol of the reversal. Plant-based meat products remained far more expensive than chicken, did not reach taste parity, and were caught in a wider backlash against ultra-processed foods.
- The failure of a company such as Beyond Meat does not mean that eating more plants failed. Whole and minimally processed plant foods remain the basis of the health case for plant-predominant eating.
- Three forces drove the downturn: weak health messaging and lost trust, alienating behavior inside vegan advocacy, and post-2020 cultural and political changes.
Health messaging and lost trust
- Highly processed vegan burgers, nuggets, desserts, cheeses, and similar foods were sold as health foods. They can help people transition away from animal foods, but they are not the foods behind the strongest long-term health evidence.
- There are three routes into plant-based eating: animal ethics, environmental sustainability, and human health. The ethical and environmental cases are stronger grounds for complete animal-food exclusion than human health alone.
- Mediterranean, MIND, DASH, vegetarian, and vegan diets can all produce good health outcomes when they center on minimally processed foods. The evidence does not establish that a fully plant-exclusive diet is significantly healthier than every other well-constructed pattern.
- Past advocacy often oversimplified concerns about vitamin B12, protein, fat intake, and individual variability. A diet that works extremely well for one person does not necessarily work identically for everyone.
- Rich extrapolated too much from his own success and previously platformed advocates whose health message was carrying an ethical goal; Simon sometimes tiptoed around irresponsible education on protein, B12, and very-low-fat plant-based diets.
- A fully plant-exclusive diet may not work for absolutely everyone. People should not be made guilty or ashamed if they feel better and remain healthier on a plant-predominant diet.
- Personal success can become evangelism: someone feels dramatically better, assumes others will too, and then blames people who have a different experience for doing the diet incorrectly. The same pattern occurs in carnivore and ketogenic communities.
- Across the broader evidence base, the people doing well over decades tend to eat high-fiber, plant-predominant diets that are lower in saturated fat and ultra-processed foods.
- Trust erodes when animal-rights ethics are hidden inside a health message. Health information should be given transparently even when the strongest motivation for avoiding animal foods is ethical.
- Absolute messages such as all dairy being unhealthy, all animal protein being harmful, or fish being bad for health do not fit the nutrition science. Fermented dairy such as yogurt and cheese can be neutral or beneficial depending on context, and fatty fish is generally neutral or beneficial.
- Social media rewards certainty, simplicity, and confidence, while good science contains uncertainty and context. This created incentives for stronger and simpler vegan health messages than the evidence could support.
- A practical nutrition philosophy is simple without being absolute: eat a plant-predominant pattern built from minimally processed foods, keep ultra-processed packaged foods limited, and choose the carbohydrate level that leaves you feeling best.
Protein and micronutrients
- The old message that everything takes care of itself on a vegan diet except perhaps B12 was too simple. Removing fish, meat, and other animal foods changes protein and micronutrient intake depending on what foods take their place.
- Protein-rich plant foods such as tofu, tempeh, edamame, chickpeas, beans, and lentils are better swaps for animal protein than simply eating more fruit and vegetables.
- Plant-exclusive diets need attention to vitamin B12, omega-3 fats, iodine, zinc, and overall protein. For a busy person who is not carefully tracking food, a multivitamin can function as nutritional insurance, with omega-3 supplementation added separately.
- Protein matters, but sarcopenia in the general population is driven more by inactivity than by inadequate protein. Resistance training supplies the missing stimulus for maintaining and building muscle, while the average person already consumes enough protein.
Why vegan advocacy pushes people away
- Moral superiority, scolding, shame, and purity tests make the movement less attractive. People generally do not want to join a community that begins by telling them they are bad or morally deficient.
- Ardent animal-rights activism has a role in sounding an alarm and defining moral boundaries, but alarm-raising and mass persuasion are different jobs.
- For broad persuasion, attraction works better than promotion: live the ethic in a way that looks healthy, functional, and appealing, then help people who become curious without demanding immediate ideological purity.
- Strong ethical conviction and welcoming communication can coexist. Compassion for animals can also be directed toward people who disagree, and internal attacks over who is vegan enough weaken the movement.
- Getting 80% of people to do Meatless Mondays can accomplish more for animal welfare than getting 1% of people to become 100% vegan; purity tests can destroy useful opportunities for partial change.
The post-2020 cultural shift
- Veganism became associated with "wokeness," institutional control, and the political left, while meat became tied to red-pill identity, freedom, and masculinity. "Soy boy" became an insult used to make plant-based eating look incompatible with manhood.
- Meat historically signaled hunting ability, physical strength, and provision for a group; modern meat usually signals shopping. What is on a plate no longer demonstrates those capacities.
- Young men looking for status, dating success, and a stronger identity can be drawn toward external signals such as heavy lifting, steak, and rejection of soy. Physical fitness matters, but long-term partnership also depends heavily on emotional capacity, listening, and not becoming defensive or reactive.
- Security and self-worth come from narrowing the gap between the person you want to be and the way you actually behave: being trustworthy, loyal, dependable, accountable, and able to live in line with your values.
- Food choice does not determine male identity. Equating meat with masculinity also benefits large meat companies, even though the same message is often packaged as resistance to institutional manipulation and support for local food sovereignty.
- Protecting vulnerable beings, reducing environmental harm, and making difficult choices in line with personal ethics can be expressions of strength, not weakness.
Where to go from here
- The goal does not need to be perfect veganism. A stronger direction is to eat as plant-exclusive as is compatible with feeling healthy, nourished, and physically capable while also weighing animal welfare and environmental impact.
- To start, reduce red meat, white meat, and processed meat and add more tofu, tempeh, lentils, beans, chickpeas, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and seeds.
- Do not remove animal protein without planning the protein source that takes its place. Aim for at least 1.2 g/kg of protein, rising to about 1.6 g/kg when very physically active; a protein shake can add roughly 40 g.
- A simple starting supplement plan is a multivitamin plus DHA/EPA omega-3 from fish oil or algae oil, with later refinement based on the individual diet.
References None.

A very thoughtful interview, I like Simon Hill's open plant-based approach, and openness to the current state of the literature. They identify paternalistic lying to people is still lying and puts people off when they figure out the trivial lies. Good life lesson I can use anywhere!
other then using "the science" he is nuanced on what is actually demonstrated. he claims being a strict vegan for 12 years. but he personally doesn't identify as vegan, just animal free.
FWIW anyone who uses "the science", or "settled science", or "scientific consensus" isn't being a good faith participant in the discussion, either blinded by bias (which I think Mr. Hill is, since he doesn't really touch upon the limitations of epidemiology), or trying to introduce weasel words into the discussion to move past the actual limitations of the literature.
11m - they admit non-vegan diets can get equivalent or better health outcomes... wow, just wow, refreshing to see such as obvious point freely admitted!
Around the 17m mark he talks about how the movement doesn't need to concern itself with what the "low carb" community doing, and thats refreshing to hear.
I listen to this kind of stuff when grinding wardogs, you never know what you will learn!