She was an absolute bitch. Is there a more reviled character from the DS9 series?
this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2026
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Good in Dukat? The sect leader nazi rapist? Ok, sure.
There was a little nugget of good in him before Ziyal died. He actually loved her and it truly broke him when she was killed.
Yeah, but it's like trying to find a nugget of good within Hitler, you can probably succeed but why would you? At some point, nugget or not, it doesn't make a difference.
The meme is about evil and good having the capacity for the other. Which Dukat had.
Hitler had some good in him too. (Can’t believe i just typed that but it is what it is). He loved animals especially his dogs.
He was a horrible genocidal dickbag but still had a tiny bit of good in him. Remember, people aren’t born evil, they learn it.
I still feel like a Garak or even Quark would have fit better. Because overall there was very, very little good in Dukat.
Because if the point is to say that "evil having the capacity for good" means 99.9% evil and 0.1% good, well to be honest it doesn't really change much.
I mean, I know that this isn't really a post made to be highly philosophical but still.
Garak and Quark aren’t really evil imho. Opportunists, sure. But truly evil? Nah.
Garak was in all likelihood a spy and assassin working for the cardassians, that has absolutely no problem murdering someone if that's the easiest solution.
Quark is a ultracapitalist that would betray any value for money, is extremely misogynistic, does things like dealing weapons if I remember properly, and is fine with doing illegal porn holodeck programs of people without their consent. He is maybe less evil than he could have been, but on the scale he's definitely more on the evil side.
Obviously it all comes down to the definition of good or evil, which being undefined here makes things more blurry and up to interpretation.
I think you need to go watch DS9 again if that’s all you got from their characters.
Neither of them are evil. Garak is a spy but spies aren’t evil. He killed people but so do soldiers.
Quark isn’t evil at all. He has multiple episodes where he realizes his wrong thinking and changes his ways. Ultracapitalism isn’t great but it isn’t evil per se.
Yeah so I think we have a definition of what good and evil is that differs.
Killing is immoral, and if you don't feel any problem being ordered to kill, I see that as evil. Yes, it includes soldiers.
Quark has multiple episodes where he changes slightly, and multiple episodes where he absolutely doesn't. He is less obviously evil but still is. And ultracapitalism definitely is evil, I don't see how it could not. Capitalism on its own falls towards the evil side, ultracapitalism is quite obviously evil for me. And I don't see how a system made to take advantage of others at any opportunity you get, with nothing else mattering more than materialism and money, wouldn't be evil.
After all, treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Garaks interrogation history alone would make him very black... to our morality
Well, he did ...
spoiler
kill Kai Winn in the end.
that's like crediting hitler for stopping hitler.
technically correct but inherently wrong
I was actively avoiding Godwin's law here, but you fasttracked us right to it. 😀
why avoid the obvious, the cardassians are space nazis.
Because it lets people simply horrendous actions as "Nazi" and ignore it. People say "Nazis are bad" (true BTW!), but then think no further. Many of the Cardassians actions against Bajor mirror closer to European colonization during the 15th and 16th centuries.
Many of the Cardassians actions against Bajor mirror closer to European colonization
ok, also terrible horrible people, so still fitting the theme
All he ever asked for is a little recognition, like a statue, for all the crim… er, hem… "pest control" he managed.
And then there's this bitch
That was what my mind supplied.
Swap the first two for odo and garak
Obviously Garak is opposite of Space Karen. Dude's just a simple tailor!
My child, that's not really fair. Winn was ambitious and power-hungry, yes, and that made her corruptible, true, but that's not the same as being evil. I also think she redeemed herself at the end, using her last breath to tell the Emissary how to defeat the Pah Wraiths.
Bro, I'd drop kick her into a volcano for less than it would take me to admit that I am a very robust admirer of feet.
She is very hatable. Not wanting to kick her into a vulcano means you should get checked into a psych ward.
But.
She is not evil. Power hungry, corruptable, arrogant, and generally a massive cunt: yes. But not inherently evil.
Just be happy we never get to see her feet.
I'd cut her dog ears off and eat them for breakfast like dan Langley didn't even fuck me in the jabooter
Winn was ambitious and power-hungry, yes, and that made her corruptible, true, but that’s not the same as being evil.
Bruh, that's what evil is.
Quiet, she'll hear you!
Good in Ducat? A rapist who doesn’t conceive of himself as such? Ducat and Kilgrave should get together and have coffee.
honestly? dukat seems capable of pretending he can get along if conditions permit it.
i have not finished all of ds9 yet (I'm on season 6 at the moment)
winn has never done a single thing that was selfless. ever. she only has served her own purpose in the show. there's never negotiating with her. she just does evil shit constantly. so badly she got railed into by Kira for being a coward and weak in her faith.
dukat at least has moments of clarity and is a great villain. winn is honestly just...concentrated raw evil. (at least imho)
There is an episode in season 6 where Dukat’s true feelings are laid bare. My opinion of him was never good, but that episode locked it in. He ain’t good, at all.
from a villain perspective, he is amazing. and yeah I know what episode you mean =( it was the scariest he has ever been in an episode.
fantastic and terrible at the same time. the writing in ds9 is great!
I feel, as villains go, Dukat and Kilgrave are similar. What you’re talking about is his depth as a character. The best villains have depth, spiraling down and understanding just how bad they are is great.
And then there’s Winn. Historically, religion has been a difficult play in fiction, getting a little too black and white in many cases, such that the depth is not there. Many works lack depth. DS9 manages to pull it off. It’s part of why it’s the best of the series(es?) out there.
Winn feels like “there was an attempt”. The religion worked, but she wasn’t fleshed out enough. Her deal is I’m trying to have faith, but I’m not sure I do because the prophets don’t believe in me, so I’ll go for the power instead. There’s spite there, which is ordinary and boring. Gets better final season, but it wasn’t quite there for making a great character. She serves the plot and that is all.
The balance between good and evil
I can't help but feel that they did the Sisko wrong here.
I don't think Senator Vreenak would agree with you.
It's a faaaaaake!
theological question how much hell do you think i'd earn for punching god in the face?
Poisoning whole planets for personal vendetta is the "balance of good and evil"?
They were asking for it.
Ignoring this, a daoist reading of ds9 and sisko eventually following wu wei while dukat fails in forcing control would be interesting. Inherently absurd, but interesting.
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