this post was submitted on 31 May 2026
102 points (100.0% liked)

Chapotraphouse

14392 readers
464 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Slop posts go in c/slop. Don't post low-hanging fruit here.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

hahaha jokes on you I have no money for retirement anyway

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] crusa187@lemmy.ml 39 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

This may well be the catalyst to topple this house of cards. Hold onto your butts! (And put in your shorts.)

[–] hotcouchguy@hexbear.net 11 points 2 weeks ago

Convenient that they scheduled a specific date for the crash

[–] FloridaBoi@hexbear.net 29 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

iirc they did something similar with Tesla although nowhere near as egregious. Trueanon had an episode where Liz talked about this manipulation to make everyone passively invested in Tesla and now they’re doing it even worse with SpaceX which has the absolute wildest prospectus

[–] red_giant@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

A $22.5 trillion addressable market, 20 trillion of which is AI, justified by the fact SpaceX leases compute time to Anthropic

An absolute dumpster fire

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 28 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Does this mean people are being forced to buy Spacex stonks somehow?

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 38 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Yes, I laid it out in more detail in another reply, but index funds buy shares of every company in an index (S&P 500, NASDAQ, etc.) as a way of investing in the entire market or a sector. This is seen as very safe since presumably over the long term line goes up. By waiving all of these requirements all of these hedge funds and retirement funds that use these index funds will be forced to immediately buy huge numbers of SpaceX shares and pump up the price right after the IPO and then hold the bag as the price goes back down.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 24 points 2 weeks ago

Boy life has really been good to Elon, I mean sure he's failed upwards, his exes hate him, his kids hate him, but he's got a legion of nimrod fans and literally all the money in the world.

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

But, why? If anyone can see that shit is not really worth their stupid self-asigned price, why would they actually buy that bag of shit?

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

https://archive.vn/dqVcc

This article goes over it briefly. But it doesn't really cover how SpaceX got the waivers other than stating that index providers are becoming less risk averse and more willing to make these exceptions. It is just with the very large size of the SpaceX IPO and the fact that it is not profitable and its valuation being based on large scale space travel soon becoming a thing and everyone getting their internet from starlink soon that this is such an extremely bad idea.

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

based on large scale space travel soon becoming a thing

Of all the stupid business plans... I really do not understand this. Who the fuck wants to go to "space"? There's nothing there. literally no there there. Elon Musk has not even been "there". Has a single person ever gone twice in a recreational capacity?

More fun to go to IMAX or roller coaster.

and everyone getting their internet from starlink

My understanding is that from a technical perspective this is implausible but at least it kind of makes sense as a desire. A powerful wfi router in the sky.

Even if it were technically plausible, the telecom monopolies being as they are, it would be a long slow row to hoe displacing them.

[–] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I just wish that the billionaires lining up to shoot themselves into space on shoddily constructed hardware could find a less ecologically devastating way to do it, like maybe a really damn big trebuchet.

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

I think it's worth the hit to the atmosphere.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] senseamidmadness@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Ever since I was a kid I wanted to go to space. But only because I loved and still love science

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Of all the stupid business plans... I really do not understand this. Who the fuck wants to go to "space"?

Mars bases and colonization is what Musk tries to sell. Similarly asteroid mining, data centers and factories in space, and massively increased rollout of satellites. All of these are stupid because they all rely on massively over-inflating the upsides and really thoroughly underestimating the costs and expenses of doing things in space, even if we could theoretically put some of these things up there. The only plausible part of the plan that makes sense is increased demand for satellites, but that includes a lot of double-dealing, since Starlink is going to be a supposed driver of that.

and everyone getting their internet from starlink

Similarly I don't think it is theoretically impossible. I have not looked at the numbers or how much of the electromagnetic spectrum that that would require with current technology, nor have I seen anyone else try to address it. But my feeling is that this is unlikely to work at that scale and would be prohibitively expensive to keep such a large covering of satellites in low earth orbit, aside from other issues like making ground based astronomy impossible and risk of space debris. I think this is the same thing as everything else, of just really trying to low ball and ignore the actual costs and just rely on the idea of "Musk launches a few more satellites and everyone can just get internet everywhere and we don't have to maintain all of this pesky ground based infrastructure like wires and fiber"

[–] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

everyone getting their internet from starlink soon that this is such an extremely bad idea.

Literally dotcom bubble 2.0

Well at least copper and fiber doesn't deorbit and can be used for decades.

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Honestly, I have not looked too deeply into how SpaceX got all of these waivers. I am guessing there are enough people holding equity in SpaceX with influence that can pull strings to get their exit liquidity. And they can try to justify it to rubes as SpaceX being the super future company that should be treated specially (It bought xAI, and is trying to sell itself as the future of internet through starlink and having control of all space travel when we all start moving to space and Mars bases any day now)

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So it's the funds' managers bankrupting their own funds? Just openly stealing from the company you manage by using all the company funds to buy magic beans from your cousin?

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

My understanding is that it is the index managers not the fund managers. Indicies started just as nice ways to track the market or sectors in one number (which is why in reporting and checking on the market you will see those numbers quoted). When an index fund decides to track an index and define and market themselves as doing it, the fund is legally obligated to follow the index. Several analysts at the FT has been complaining about how much power this gives the people in charge of the indicies and that most people haven't really caught on to.

Edit: to make it clear guys at something like Standards and Poor (S&P) decide on what to include in the index and the rules around it and then someone at a company like Blackrock or Vanguard markets an index fund that will track that index to investors. So in this hypothetical, it is S&P screwing over Vanguard investors.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Dunno, idk how the market works

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 11 points 2 weeks ago

:monke-to-monke-communication:

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago

I think there are about to be about a million explainers on every type of media about this stuff. Like in 2020 when everyone learned about supply chains.

[–] Bronstein_Tardigrade@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My brother's 401k lost half its value in the 2008 crash and, despite the latest meteoric rise in stock, he never got it back. Now I see how it happened. You might want to cash out while you still can.

[–] hellinkilla@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

You might want to cash out while you still can.

What does that even mean though?

[–] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 12 points 2 weeks ago

For a 401k or similar? Move all your shit to indexed bond funds, most likely. You will just barely break even on inflation, but the crash shouldn't completely decimate your retirement account. Then again, with the petrodollar on its way out (inshallah), I don't even know that this is valid advice anymore.

[–] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

not sure what OP meant, but depending on what your retirement account looks like, control wise, you can "rebalance" your assets to the lowest risk funds. generally those include money market funds, which are highly liquid and tend to only "grow" at or under 1% and their management fees eat even a piece of that. they have pretty strict requirements of diversification and the asset classes are all shit like currencies, treasury bonds, short term secured loans, etc. i think even during the GFC 2007-2008 it was a huge deal that some of the money market funds from banks that went under dropped 2-3% during the crisis and that exacerbated panic since these funds aren't supposed to "break" (decrease in value at all) even during a total shitshow. my understanding is that part of the treasury / TARP bailout was to cover that 2-3% loss even. of course, if congress ever did the thing where they let the government default, that would probably make those funds go haywire and probably induce a coup because the capitalist class relies heavily on treasury bonds.

one could try to actually cash out early, but the taxes owed on early disbursements from retirement accounts are generally prohibitive since retirement accounts are built around deferred taxation. so you basically take a lot off the top if you do that.

anyway, all this assumes like the dollar doesn't become worthless or there isn't a revolution, because then all bets are off and what would a bag of cash in hand be worth then anyway? more or less than a bag of potatoes?

[–] wheresmysurplusvalue@hexbear.net 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Suddenly I'm glad I just changed jobs, since it allowed me to rollover my 401k into an IRA and I can actually pick non-shit funds or just hold it in cash for a minute

[–] KuroXppi@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

rollover my 401k into an IRA

anti-thatcher-action

[–] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

TELL THEM HOW THE IRA MADE YOU INVEST ANYWAY IN THE FREE AND FALLING STOCKS OF THE MARKETS

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] aanes_appreciator@hexbear.net 21 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

so they're cutting the requirements to join the stock exchange so SpaceX can IPO?

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

They are cutting the requirements for inclusion in index funds. It is not the trading on the stock exchange. Index funds are supposed to track various indicies (e.g. S&P 500, Dow Jones, NASDAQ, etc.) as a way of passively investing in the entire market or a sector of the market. This is a common thing to include in retirement funds and other conservative portfolios, because you are assuming you are tracking the whole market, so it is really safe if the line keeps going up over the long term. By waiving all of these rules to include SpaceX in the indicies, it is a way to force all of these funds to dump a bunch of money into SpaceX immediately after the IPO to immediately inflate the price and provide exit liquidity for current shareholders that worry that the inflated price wont continue long after the IPO and shares selling more openly on the market.

Edit: TLDR it is a way to force all these retirement and hedge funds to dump a bunch of money into SpaceX shares and be a bag holder after the share price almost immediately spikes as they buy it, and then deflates afterward.

[–] Pandantic@midwest.social 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

In other words, helps the investors but fucks the workers?

[–] radio_free_asgarthr@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

Well, it helps SpaceX investors and hurts other investors which includes worker's retirement investments.

[–] CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago

Fucks everyone but musk and people already onboard. No one who doesn't already have money in spacex will benefit from this

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Edit: TLDR it is a way to force all these retirement and hedge funds to dump a bunch of money into SpaceX shares and be a bag holder after the share price almost immediately spikes as they buy it, and then deflates afterward.

So it’s a pump and dump but instead of using hype and fomo to lure the bag holders, Elon is bribing the indices to passively make index funds the bag holders.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] LaughingLion@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago

my dad has money invested in this im not even joking all i can do is say "the stock market is a casino never bet what you cant afford to lose" but then again hes got retirement from like 3 sources so hes insulated

[–] microfiche@hexbear.net 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

For how long has the game been rigged? This is just further proof that none of it means anything, that even more of the rules can be changed at any time to benefit the haves at the expense of the have-nots.

The shark has been jumped long ago, but the shit keeps getting more and more brazen.

[–] Crucible@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

For how long has the game been rigged?

Since March 20th 1602

[–] calidris@hexbear.net 3 points 2 weeks ago

Always has been. They've just utilized people's complacency to unabashedly take a more than ever before.

[–] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 17 points 2 weeks ago
[–] mayakovsky@hexbear.net 15 points 2 weeks ago

So deeply irresponsible

[–] segfault11@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

we need some boomer on the verge of retirement to step up luigi-dance

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Rom@hexbear.net 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

All of this shit is made up and money isn't real. Give me healthcare.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 10 points 2 weeks ago

It’s all Trump Bux now, he’s enmeshed, now Elon is enmeshing. Gross. It’s all so gross.

[–] Beaver@hexbear.net 8 points 2 weeks ago

I begrudgingly have to accept that Elon is some type of genius. He has convinced the entire stock market to be his bagholder on his quest to become a trillionaire.

[–] RION@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

From the bogleheads (emphasis mine):

"... VTI (and most index funds for that matter) are free float adjusted. Meaning space x is selling less than 5% of the company, so it’s treated at the less than 5% of the 1.75 trillion that is reported. It will not make it a top 10 company like it would if the whole company was sold. It will be a more like $50-100 billion company depending on the exact numbers. As they sell more VTI will slowly have more."

Essentially this will have a fairly minor impact on most people's 401ks. If you are very concerned it may be worth checking the funds you're invested in to see if they're free float adjusted or not.

[–] chgxvjh@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

lmao

They are really slaughtering all their golden geese right now.

[–] roux@hexbear.net 6 points 2 weeks ago

So... pull out my 401k?

load more comments
view more: next ›