Lesbians

I think the idea that "everyone" is bisexual is farcical. I wouldn't be surprised if the average sexuality was bisexual; I believe that would align with anthropological studies of human sexuality from pre-Catholic history, but everyone is a very strong word. I think it's pretty settled science that sexuality is a spectrum, the two extremes exist. There are numerous examples of people who are purely homosexual and purely heterosexual, to deny that is stupid at best and cruel at worst.

I think this view is wrong in a large variety of ways. First off, as is most relevant to this community, gay erasure. I have zero interest whatsoever in men, and I've already gone down the route of trying to figure out if I'm bi or lesbian. Second off, erasure of literally every other sexuality out there, including the most common: hetero. I think it's ridiculous to say that the entirety of the straight-identifying population just hasn't found the right person to change their idea of their sexuality. Plenty of people are just straight, nothing else about it. I've met many, many women who have zero attraction to other women, and are so unfamiliar with the concept of sexual interest that even incredibly obvious flirting is merely seen as friendly. It's perfectly okay for someone to be straight, and it's my firm belief that there are plenty of people who are.

Bi guy, so if this ain't the space to say this, lemme know I'll delete.

I think if we lost the stigma around sexuality there would be far far more bisexuals or at least people who have had encounters with people of the same and different genders, but I don't think it would become 100% of the population. I've met plenty of men and women who only want to date men and women respectively, it doesn't read as true that their feelings are solely based in some internalized biphobia. I suppose some of them had heterosexual experiences before they found themselves, but I don't think that is a sign of bisexual, rather heteronormitivity.

Attraction greatly depends on the other person's presentation. Also, heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual are terms that exclude non-binary people and the fact that both experienced gender and gender presentation are typically spectrums, not extreme binaries.

So it depends on your definition of bisexual and what aspects you're looking at. What I think people often mean is that almost everyone finds some aspects of both stereotypical femininity and masculinity attractive. Primarily that's because most of that stuff is learned, not instinctual, otherwise how can you explain changes in those stereotypes across generations. But also because the way people choose to express gender is dynamic and varied. Labels are fine for personal identification and communication, but not for imposing restrictions on others.

I believe straight people exist, I also believe exclusively gay people exist ... it was harder for me to believe this as a bisexual myself, but I no longer think everyone is bisexual whether they know it or not. As far as I know sexuality is biological and not subject to influence, hence conversion therapy doesn't work - you can't make gay people straight or straight people gay, and likewise you can't make a straight or gay person bi ...

I think I just don't understand how monosexuality works when it intersects with trans/GNC/enby folks. Do you wait until you know someone's gender until you are attracted to them? Are certain pronouns a turnoff? Some femboys are suuuuuper fem, and some trans women present more masc. And I know some lesbians use he/him pronouns.

It seems like the sharp lines between genders just completely collapse into a fuzzy cloud when you get too queer with it.

Maybe I'm just too bisexual and nonbinary to get it.

(Sorry I saw this cross the lemmy timeline and I found it interesting). I'm a gay guy, but I feel that the sentiment that "literally" everyone is bisexual is an obvious nonstarter and dumb. My bi friends that have said stuff like that before are surely shorthanding that they think that many "straight" people are bi to some degree, and while I think that's closer to true, I also still think it's dumb and reductive. Sexuality is complicated and not beholden to labels, yet I feel I'm 100% gay, no leeway, same as you probably feel about being lesbian - I have to imagine most straight people are the same.

It seems paradoxical that in the land of infinite sexuality permutations, these rigid labels are accurate, but maybe it would only seem unintuitive on the surface. Who's to say that all these permutations are evenly distributed, or that they don't clump up around the extremes, and so on. We'll probably eventually know the actual statistics and maybe the science on how all this stuff works (maybe we already do - I'm dumb please forgive), but in the meantime people are just making some smudgy extrapolations based on their own experiences and the experiences of having many of their "straight" friends come out as bi when they're like 40+ years old. Many "straight" people probably didn't even know it was an option until they saw others doing so. I expect such extrapolations will die down pretty quickly after enough time has passed to make it clear the numbers aren't continuing to grow. My guess is people are just genuinely excited about the prospect that many people can potentially join them in being LGBTQ+, and aren't really thinking through the rest of the consequences.

Your last paragraph makes me think that the implication is that if you're even 1% attracted to men then you're being told you might as well date a man because that's the "normal" or "easy" thing to do which is super messed up also. Above all, no one should be dictating anyone else's sexuality, and if they do then you've learned a free lesson in who you can ignore.

i guess that 98% of all people are secretly bisexual but i still don't think it's a good idea to tell other people that they're actually probably bisexual; it feels like "force-cracking" the egg of transgender people. people need to figure it out on themselves.

As a pan man, I could swing either way on the issue.

Cis/het male, also lifelong LGBTQ+ ally. Not subscribed — I browse /all, and I'm replying because the sidebar says this community is for (inclusive of) people whose loved ones are lesbians. I guess my mother and stepmother count? And one of my aunts. And a couple friends at work. Anyway, not here to step on anyone's toes or tell them what's what with them. Only my own experiences (and those of those who have shared theirs with me).

So anyway, my theory is that sexuality is kind of a scale. 0 is kind of the default and it means no sex preferences. I think if we raised children in a vacuum (without any kind of influence as to who they're meant to be attracted to), I think you'd see a lot more bisexuality (or pansexuality) than you do in the general population. And then 100 (or whatever arbitrary number) means you're 100% attracted to the same sex (since mathematically positive ~= same) and -100 means you're 100% attracted to the opposite sex (since mathematically negative ~= different).

In the world we live in, if my scale is accurate, most straight men would swear to you they're a -100, not a gay bone in their body, not a single chance they'd ever be attracted to another male. Two problems with that. One, they haven't met every male, and two, they were raised to be straight (most likely). They might have had leanings toward a certain type of male, but they would have been suppressed. I think, socially, women are less likely to face this condition so they are more prone to bisexuality or lesbianism. I am inclined to say the same thing, but on the other hand, I've seen Jim Morrison (of The Doors) and Michael Hutchence (of INXS), so... maybe closer to -99? (Both of them have passed away decades ago.) I dunno. The point isn't to place yourself on the scale. I think the point is ultimately to find love in the first place, and then find love that lasts, in whatever form that takes.

Regarding the lesbian take in the third paragraph, I feel like that gets tried more often than lesbians would like to admit. Referring back to my mother, she and my father were friends, and they were married mostly out of convenience. She wanted a house and he could get one if he was married. She also wanted to give birth naturally and only have sons (and she did that). She was also up front with my father, and told everyone who would listen that she was only attracted to women. My father was not lied to or misled (except by his own prejudices, but he was neither a bad father nor a bad husband, just a little naive). Still, after the divorce, my mother (much later!) told me that she actually tried a few other different men (mainly, men of different races) to be sure... and none of them were pleasant experiences. So she's been exclusive to women for over 30 years now, probably closer to 35 years (and she's been married to one for close to 30). So it worked out in the end. I also have a friend who is a bit younger than me, and she has a girlfriend, and I asked her one day, and she said she experimented with boys in middle school and high school, and it wasn't for her, she figured out early what she wanted, and in this slightly more liberal world, she was able to get it a lot more easily than my mother did. Time will tell if she's in a relationship that will go 30 years, or if she's learning lessons on the way to that long term love.

I'm not gonna go answer other people because this really isn't my space, but I think the counterpoint to my scale theory (and I've seen arguments to that effect in other comments) is that we're on a scale of only whole numbers. Gay, bi, hetero, and others. And I don't agree with that. I think there is a lot of space in between, and bisexuality and pansexuality exist in that space. I do think there are fewer gays and straights than there are bi/pan, at least in a world without influence that we don't live in. I don't think it's erasure though. I think it's fine for someone to say they are not interested at all in the same/opposite sex. I think there's some choice there, too. For every gay person who had to play it straight (like my mother did), they can lie to themselves and justify it, or they can take steps to change their life. Unfortunately for my mother that involved a lot of mental health issues, and sadly, drugs. (Ironically, she is still alive — has outlived my father, who lived a more healthy lifestyle, by going on 25 years now.) And I think people who are close to either end of my proposed spectrum can safely say they don't want to mix it up. The argument that a lesbian "hasn't found the right man" misses the point. Maybe there IS a "right man" that would make her hook up with a guy. Maybe there's a right man for the straight man. But the point as I see it is to find where you're happy, not to get away from what makes you happy for what "could" make you happy. If you're happy, in a long-term relationship, you know who you are, it doesn't matter what you could be if what you could be is less than what you feel you are. It's not just dating the other sex, the one you're not attracted to. There are tons of things we would never do day to day, that we would do in the right situation. I have done, and will continue to do, things I never thought my life would contain. But I keep forging ahead, trying to do the right thing, and enjoy my time with the right people. And that's what I hope for others. I think that's the meaning of life. Finding what works and sharing the joy and knowledge.

I would not be shocked if there were more bi people than het or gay (or ace), and that we'd find that out in a world without homophobia, but I don't think it's anywhere near (almost) all. My suspicion is that there are more heterosexuals than bi people, but I can see finding out otherwise. I really really doubt other sexualities almost don't exist because there's a chance bi people exist in higher numbers than we used to know.

It comes across sometimes like women aren't allowed to say we know ourselves, especially if it means we aren't immediately complying with whatever other people want from us.

I don't like, as a bisexual, when people try to use bisexuality as a way to define lesbians out of existence. You get to say who you are.