this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2025
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top 39 comments
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[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 65 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Alan Moore talks about how he created Rorschach to be the most disgusting character imaginable. A total loser with no friends and a twisted view of the world.

He says he's tired of all the fan boys who come up to him and tell him how Rorschach is them!

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 42 points 1 month ago (4 children)

To be fair, Rorschach has a few traits worth emulating. He does have a rock solid sense of right and wrong and uhhhh... Yeah no, that's about it.

[–] DagwoodIII@piefed.social 20 points 1 month ago

I can't remember the exact name, but there's a common process with ongoing characters where the writers find themselves making their toughest characters nicer over time.

Both Wolverine and Jack Reacher were presented as unapproachable loners at first, and both mellowed considerably over time.

Rorschach was 'lucky' because he got to die a noble death before being forced to become civilized.

[–] Siethron@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

He's also capable of backing his words up with actions. Although in the prison scene I guess the actions came first.

Pretty sure the "you're locked in here with me" vibe. is what all the fanboys envision themselves as, but would never actually be to emulate.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He does have a rock solid sense of right and wrong

As long as it is not informed by the white supremacist tabloid he was reading. Did you miss the parts where we read his thoughts about gay people or welfare queens (dogwhistle for black people)?

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I didn't say I agreed with his sense of right or wrong. But it's very solid.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But that's a subjective quality.

The terrorists that flew airplanes into the Twin Towers also had a rock solid sense of right and wrong, but not in the direction that helped anyone.

So yeah, not an admirable quality in vacuum.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago

Rorschach died because he refused to go along with a scheme to hide the truth from people. That seems universally noble to me.

[–] _lilith@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

Acutely relatable trait

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] KombatWombat@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well the willing suspension of disbelief is adjusted based on the story being told. If you say there's a made-up kingdom where animals talk in the exposition, that's fine. But if you say it takes place in a world that's basically our own, then one person can randomly shoot lasers from their eyes, you should give some explanation. It doesn't even have to be a particularly good one, but even in-universe people would be asking about that.

[–] blarghly@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Also, I don't usually see these questions asked in an overly critical sense, but rather with a sense of humor or with an eye towards world building. It's about having fun

[–] underscores@lemmy.zip 32 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I know it's a meme but it's more so incels and less the entire male population

  • an avg male with lots of avg male friends none of which give a flying fuck about the joker
[–] Soulg@ani.social 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

There's way way way better and more interesting, more nuanced antiheros out there than the fucking joker too

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And well the joker isn’t an “anti-hero” he’s a straight up psychopath

[–] Soulg@ani.social 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Also that I was just going with the language in the meme

[–] CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Oh yea I was more adding to your comment not commenting on it, my bad

[–] RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago

I'm more of an Avast male myself

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Since when did joker become an anti hero? He's the chaotic evil to Batman's chaotic good.

[–] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I always took anti hero to mean bad protagonist. Like in any normal story they're almost definitely the villain, but the story follows them as the main character so we see the world through their eyes.

With this in mind i guess joker became anti hero when he got his own movie

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

That seems way to general. I wouldn't label Tony Montana or Walter White anti heros.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I thought Batman was just lawful. He serves the interests of the rich and works with the cops.

[–] blarghly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

That's like saying Atticus Finch isn't a hero in To Kill A Mockingbird because you, personally, are racist and don't think fighting for the rights of black people is a noble persuit. A character is a hero in a story if they are good according to the morals implicit in the story's world.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Beating the absolute shit out of people isn't lawful.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

Sure it is! He's deputized by the GCPD. And it's part of his personal code.

[–] salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah, I dunno about that. "Anti-hero" is a pretty big trope, not at all limited to mentally ill characters.

[–] rainwall@piefed.social 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Its a big list, but most have at least severe, untreated PTSD.

Punisher comes to mind, Venom as well. Wolverine fits here, along with his memory loss issues.

[–] TheFunkyMonk@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Dude’s rock did what?

[–] yermaw@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Antiheros are supposed to be relatable to some extent. You're supposed to be on their side.

When they talk about how the world is broken and everyone just seems to be accepting it, theyre spot on. When they talk about how we've allowed the worst traits of humanity to flourish and dominate they're saying what we're all thinking. These are the quotes that get shared on boomermemes on Facebook. What doesnt get shared so much is their plan to fix it which involves taking a bus full of toddlers hostage with a bomb.

[–] lemmy_outta_here@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

I think you nailed it. Antiheroes are a power fantasy. If they weren’t relatable, the movie would be boring. I think they also make people feel strong and resilient in comparison: the joker (or whatever) faces some of the same humiliations the viewer faces, but the joker snaps and goes on a rampage while the viewer carries on. The rampage part is the “anti” in antihero. The viewer gets to feel like the hero.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

The "joker" trope from batman is very USA centered too, we don't have that very much in Europe, or so I feel.

Edit I not U

[–] frizzo@piefed.social 15 points 1 month ago

Squats and Laughs in Eastern European.

[–] sundray@lemmus.org 1 points 1 month ago

It's true, pierrots rarely become super villains.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago
[–] tias@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago

Leave me out of this

[–] HollowNaught@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago
[–] TwoBeeSan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Stavros_laugh.mp3

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

You just offended my entire gender.

But yes, that's true and it's bad that about half are fucking idiots.