this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2025
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The title is a bit clickbait-y. I went into this one feeling strongly opposed it. Afterwards I'm still not sure, but I get that there's some nuance to it.

Relevance:

In Québec and other parts of Canada, discussions are underway to adopt such regulations.

Author: Steve Lorteau | Long-Term Appointment Law Professor, L’Université d’Ottawa/University of Ottawa

Excerpts:

Interactions between different users on roads are often a source of frustration, the most prominent being those between motorists and cyclists.

For example, many motorists are frustrated when they see bicycles cross an intersection without coming to a complete stop, which drivers are required to do.

As a professor of law at the University of Ottawa who specializes in urban law issues, I have studied various regulatory approaches that have been adopted around the world, each with different advantages and disadvantages.

The uniform application of traffic rules may seem fair, but in reality, it can create a false sense of equality.

On the one hand, the risks associated with different modes of transport are incommensurate. A car that runs a red light can cause serious or even fatal injuries. A cyclist, on the other hand, is unlikely to cause the same degree of damage.

Furthermore, the efficiency of cycling depends on maintaining speed. Having to stop completely over and over discourages people from cycling, despite its many benefits for health, the environment and traffic flow.

Treating two such different modes of transport the same way, therefore, amounts to implicitly favouring cars, something akin to imposing the same speed limit on pedestrians and trucks.

Since 1982, cyclists in Idaho have been able to treat a stop sign as a yield sign and a red light as a stop sign. Several American states (such as Arkansas, Colorado, and Oregon) and countries, such as France and Belgium, have adopted similar regulations.

In Québec and other parts of Canada, discussions are underway to adopt such regulations.

It’s important to note that the goal of the Idaho stop rule is not to legalize chaos on the roads. Cyclists must still yield to cars ahead of them at stop signs, as well as to pedestrians at all times, and may only enter the intersection when it is clear.

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[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 6 days ago

Problem is its a nuanced thing that only some folks have the sense to make a proper call. When there is no vehicle cross traffic at all. It kinda makes sense. I remember a guy though who would go through on reds for a very busy street in afternoon rush and it was quite annoying. I mean by the time the drivers get all pissed he is well away while me and the others stopped at the light are there as targets of it.

[–] monogram@feddit.nl 30 points 1 week ago (10 children)

As a Dutch citizen: NO, stop at red!

[–] monogram@feddit.nl 19 points 1 week ago

In Holland 🇳🇱 if you cycle through red while there’s a policeman on a bicycle or motorbike you’ll be getting a €120 fine.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Absolutely.

I'm fine with a simple yield on a stop sign, as long as you respect vehicle priority. But at a red light, you have to stop. It's for everybody's safey. Especially in a city.

[–] monogram@feddit.nl 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Totally, why would you want to stop at a stop sign as a cyclist it’s not like you’re driving 50km/h

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago

Yeah as long as you slow down a bit to check if there's incoming cars or pedestrians you're fine.

[–] JillyB@beehaw.org 9 points 1 week ago (2 children)

When traffic infrastructure is geared toward you and your safety, it's easy and natural to follow the rules. If the traffic infrastructure is designed to make life convenient for car drivers while neglecting cyclists' safety, don't expect them to respect the rules over their own judgement.

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[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 week ago

The headline is misleading to what is actually being proposed; the Idaho stop means treating stop signs as yields, and red lights as stops.

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago

In a lot of place around the world where a green light needed to be triggered by metalic object, then the rule is really : Stop at red, only go when it's safe. Else you will wait forever. In Netherland, the development favour cyclist and pedestrian so it's best to follow the existing rule, as the experience is already smooth.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As a Canadian citizen,read the article before posting irrelevant nonsense.

Also, make a substantive point, you being Dutch is not a substantive point.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This whole discussion is a distraction. The real solution is to have proper cycling infrastructure. You don't need to reinterpret road signs if bikes have their own signs in their own protected lanes and protected crossings.

[–] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Bike infrastructure isn't going to be possible everywhere. Idaho stop makes cycling better everywhere.

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[–] we_all_live_in_a_capital_i@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Permission to exercise discretion does not mean cyclists will blindly roll through danger. No one is more aware of the risk of cycling in traffic than cyclists. Riding defensively is a necessary state of mind. A rule change will have no effect on that.

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[–] Schmuppes@lemmy.today 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You gotta ask "Why do we need traffic lights?". The answer is "because of motor vehicles", so I don't think cyclists should be disadvantaged by something that is not required because of them.

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Drivers will criticize cyclists while drivers themselves rarely stop for a right turn on red and rarely make a full stop at a stop sign

[–] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Just look around in this thread and you will find driver talking as if all cyclist is bad.

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[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As someone that has been living in Montreal for the past four years, which locale this article brings up numerous times, and biking about 350/365 days a year, I have to highlight a couple things to readers not from Montreal, or maybe even from the other side of the pond:

  • Canada doesn't know what yield signs are. Stop signs are on every corner, which are mostly handled as if they were yield signs, but maybe not even that. And this applies to all traffic, not just cyclists.
  • Canada also doesn't know what "right has the right of way" is. In some European countries if you come to an intersection without a light, a yield or stop sign, you simply give way to the vehicle approaching from the right.
  • The individual boroughs have a lot of disconnect between each other on how traffic is handled. While they are trying to have a unified approach, there's a lot of Balkanization.
  • Much of the infra is dated. A remainder of design from the 60s and 70s that had patchwork applied to make it more livable. Things like green wave, automated traffic control or elevated pedestrian crossings and bicycle lanes at intersections are unheard of. Most lights are just set to a fixed cycle and have been operating like the same way for years.
  • Intersections, especially with new developments, will have very sharp corners with narrow sidewalk, with greatly reduced visibility.

So that said, I rarely ever see the NYC courier style red-light skips between columns of cars by cyclists. Whenever I see that happen, it's trashy people that seem to have little regard for anything, even their own lives.
I do see cyclists regularly doing Idaho stops at full stop intersections, but it's the same as cars. I think this is a traffic design issue and not an issue with driving culture or cyclists in general. Stop signs are simply a bad design, and this has been elaborated on many times.

I also see a lot of people ride on the e-bike bixi fleet recklessly. They provide far too much speed assist with minimal effort. The same goes with the electric motor bikes with a throttle that somehow pass as e-bike just because they also have the option for pedal assist. However this is not a problem with the vehicles themselves, but rather the lack of education and handling. In most western European nations children are taught how to bike in traffic and adhere to traffic rules at an early age. I can attest to this as I have grown up in Germany, and in grade 4 elementary we had to get our Fahrrad Führerschein, which was basically an attestation of having a course completed, for children.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

Canada also doesn't know what "right has the right of way" is. In some European countries if you come to an intersection without a light, a yield or stop sign, you simply give way to the vehicle approaching from the right.

Coming to Canada from Europe some decades ago, this was a shock. The "whoever stops first has the right of way" is so much worse, it's not even funny. It requires much more attention, visibiltiy, consensus, to negotiate a simple intersection.. It's crazy. In practice, half the time people end up sitting and waiting for the other to go. The othe half, the more impatient people just go first.

[–] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

Basically (in a city below 50km/hr):

If a car runs a red light, the life at risk is someone else's.

If a bike runs a red light, the life at risk is their own.

So there is a difference.

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[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Furthermore, the efficiency of cycling depends on maintaining speed.

That's some pretty specious logic. I would use less fuel if I didn't foolishly waste it stopping at red lights too.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I think it is a little different given the physical demand of starting and stopping is on the person rather than on machinery. Adding say a dozen stops to what would have otherwise been relatively smooth speed on a bicycle will significantly increase the energy expended by the person cycling.

[–] Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

This right here. I stress fractured my ankle making hard stops over and over and over.

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 week ago

It terms of the energy that the human puts in, which is a pretty big factor in how people choose their modes of transportation

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[–] Amuletta@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Nah, I didn't get to be a 67 year old cyclist by doing dumb things in downtown rush hour traffic. In any case, starting from all those intersections when the light turned green was great training for the velodrome. I was a mediocre track cyclist, but my standing start was pretty good, due to getting out of the saddle and getting up to speed as fast as possible every single commute.

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[–] Triumph@fedia.io 5 points 1 week ago (5 children)

The key is being predictable. As long as the law says cyclists have to stop and they don’t, they are being unpredictable, and put themselves at greater risk.

And the driver who inadvertently hits a non-stopping cyclist - someone who is already much smaller and less likely to be noticed in the first place - gets to spend the rest of their lives dealing with having hit (possibly maimed or killed) said cyclist.

It’s a bad idea. Idaho should never be cited as an example.

[–] IndridCold@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

As a driver, I want to know what to expect from bike riders. Having them follow the same rules on the road cars do just makes sense.

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[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The proposed change sounds plenty predictable. A car needs to stop at stop signs, and if you're stopped, then you can also start again without worrying about bikes because you have right of way. At a red light, bikes have to come to a full stop, which gives them time to check if a car is coming or not. A car wouldn't have to worry about this at all.

Edit: It just occurred to me that you can have an intersection where the bike is faced with a stop sign but the car isn't. That would indeed be a problem if the biker doesn't come to a stop. Not enough time to react to a car charging past.

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[–] marcia@spore.social 4 points 1 week ago
[–] snoons@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago

As a Vancouverite, this is the state of things anyway. All stop signs are yield signs. All yield signs- actually there are no yield signs.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 week ago

This was a dumb title OP.

Literally everyone in this thread didn't read the article, didn't comprehend what the Idaho stop rules are, and is just in here nonsensically bitching about cyclists getting run over thinking this rule will allow them to blow through all intersections willy nilly.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Replace most of these:

With those:

[–] monogram@feddit.nl 2 points 1 week ago

Stop signs are stupid, shark teeth are cool too.

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[–] Frederic@beehaw.org 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In Québec, cyclists always say that driving laws do not apply to them, they never stop at STOP sign or a red lights, are on the road or the sidewalk instead of the cycle lanes, etc.

They are very dangerous as they respect nothing especially in suburbia. In Montreal sometimes they stop!!!!!!! because it's stop or die, mainly.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 week ago

As a cyclist, I agree. Not all cyclists are like this, but a great majority are. These cyclists are a threat to everyone. Pedestrians, other cyclists, and themselves.

As a pedestrian, I've been hit several times on De Maisonneuve Ouest's bike path while crossing at an intersection because a cyclist ran a red light into crossing pedesrians. As a cyclist, I've also had near miss collisions and have been pushed aside by assholes in leotards that want to go fast during rush hour when the path is full on Rachel. Absolute lack of consideration for others. The mentality needs to change.

[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I think the lawmakers here are maybe not considering all of the consequences.

Yes a bike won't be able to cause as much damage to another biker or a vehicle if they don't stop at a stop sign and then hit one.

Especially when compared to a vehicle hitting another vehicle.

But those aren't the only two things at a stop sign or intersection. There are also pedestrians crossing the street, often with aight telling them that it is safe to do so. People with disabilities like blindness, people with children, etc.

What happens if there is a line of vehicles to the left of the bike lane blocking the view of the cyclist and they keep going straight since it's a three way intersection, no road on the right so no vehicles to even worry about, and then a mother with a baby in a carriage steps out from in front of the vehicle at the front?

Sure a bike won't do as much damage as a vehicle, but it can still certainly do a lot of damage in the right circumstances.

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[–] rxbudian@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago

Well.. if you don't want the bicycles to slow or stop on traffic lights, another ridiculous idea is to time the traffic light changes to the average speed of cyclists instead of cars.
If the old days they time the traffic light to cars so cars doesn't have to stop at every traffic lights. Maybe now its the cyclists' turn.
This way, you can keep the traffic rules equal and drivers who do not want to stop at intersection can drive as fast as the cyclist.
If you think cyclists will be too slow to reach the next traffic light, you can arrange the interval to use double the speed of cyclists, so the lights turn right in the middle between the two lights.
Then the Question will be, what is the average speed of cyclists on the streets?

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