That is true, though.

In many ways it's also the creative mind sometimes needing some direction a producer gives in general media, and not having that lets them just go absolutely wild is useless work that ends up being scrapped

Hbomb

Personally what intrigues me the most about breadtubers is how they become mild and inoffensive versions of themselves after becoming popular/well-off. Like, what causes that? Is it that the societal problems they criticized no longer applies to them? Is it the allure of advertising money? Is it secret CIA threats? I really do wonder.

Their rage against the machine cools off when the machine starts treating them well

Personally what intrigues me the most about breadtubers is how they become mild and inoffensive versions of themselves after becoming popular/well-off. Like, what causes that? Is it that the societal problems they criticized no longer applies to them? Is it the allure of advertising money? Is it secret CIA threats? I really do wonder.

The same exact cause for hungry as fuck "progressives" like AOC to settle and water down and tiptoe away from their original mission: They've switched classes and, therefore, their new class interests are in conflict with their original mission. What's there to be hungry about anymore when you start being fed really well? Why continue trying to destroy the status quo when it's benefiting you materially? This is why it's important to maintain loyalties to class interests (in this case, the interests of the proletariat), instead of individuals who are susceptible to corruption. China does this very well and provides the blueprint.

I know Three arrows does some sort of podcast patreon subscribers can listen to, so maybe that's where they are getting their money's worth?

I did have a check there and he has put out 4 podcast episodes in the past year.

Compare that to, say, Citations Needed, TrueAnon, Radio War Nerd, SocialismForAll, The Deprogram and it absolutely pales in comparison.

I think, in some cases at least, what slows videos down is the added quality of research or production most creators invest in after getting popular. In many ways it's also the creative mind sometimes needing some direction a producer gives in general media, and not having that lets them just go absolutely wild is useless work that ends up being scrapped. I might be a bit charitable though because I only followed a few breadtubers, there may be many more that are just grifting.

This was my urge when it came to Folding Ideas because imo his stuff is some of the absolute best quality work to come out of Breadtube; it's insightful, it's well researched and well produced, it goes into topics that are either novel to the left or he approaches them from a novel angle etc. and so I'm pretty sympathetic towards him but... he's done exactly the same thing that I've described.

I agree that having a producer can be really important but if you're pulling in decent cash then surely you would be able to bring someone on for this role.

Personally what intrigues me the most about breadtubers is how they become mild and inoffensive versions of themselves after becoming popular/well-off. Like, what causes that? Is it that the societal problems they criticized no longer applies to them? Is it the allure of advertising money? Is it secret CIA threats? I really do wonder.

Lmao yes. I didn't touch on this because I didn't want to turn my post into a litany of complaints but there's definitely that turn you see in most content creators where their edge gets blunted and their positions mellow out spontaneously. I honestly think that it's about trying to be as appealing and inoffensive to their audience/potential audience as possible but who really knows?

I think Shaun still keeps to the same type of content, which is probably why I still bother watching what he puts out.

Of the Breadtubers, I will still watch Folding Ideas, Shaun, and Hbomberguy if they put out something on a topic which captures my interest and all three of them have always been pretty glacial with their output so, although I feel more charitable towards them because of that fact, I think that they're also guilty of the same phenomenon.

That being said, you could make an argument in defence of these creators because they have pretty much always been slow to release content and at least patrons knew what they were getting when they decided to support these creators. Whether that excuses this or not however is probably a matter of personal perspective.

(Remember when Shaun used to be Shaun and Jen? Pepperidge Farm remembers...)

Yeah the NileRed -> "here's a short showing ferrofluid cause it'll get 2mil views on tiktok" and "I spent $5k buying a bunch of NIST certified testing ingredients and clumsily mashing them in a beaker to make the world's shittiest 'purest' cookie" clickbait videos pipeline has been tragic but I suppose in all honesty, even as a certified chemist, there's only so much chemistry reaction/synthesis content you can do before you either start extracting DMT with naptha for views or eventually start getting visits from your local PD or kill yourself converting motor oil into chewing gum or something.

But 100% agree it is the general Youtuber playbook. HBomberguy is another example - although I am more willing to give creators like him & FoldingIdeas (and even ones who aren't really pushing patreons/podcasts/etc but instead trying to build an actual documentary career, like Defunctland, and as a result take like a year between videos) more leeway because A.) Their videos usually are feature-film length and well-researched, but also very niche genres/topics so it is understandably hard to find topics to discuss at length & B.) If they do have patreons, they're usually posting stuff to it and they're typically like $1-5 for all the content excluding like the bullshit 'get your name in my video credits' or 'get access to my discord'. But again, Hbomberguy has 13,000 patreons and even at his cheapest $2/mo tier, that's $26k/mo so like $300k/year and he last posted a video to Youtube in Nov 2022 & has made 3 Patreon posts since then, one being an hour long video about Myst for backers and the other being the first 90 minutes of his next upcoming video.

Feel like there are like three (maybe more, but I'm on my lunch break and not trying to spend the entirety posting on Hexbear about youtubers) well-tread paths a Youtuber can take these days:

• A: The Patreon-less sponsor-funded route with an actual team of people working under/for you. (I'm thinking Tom Scott, Wendover Productions, etc) I'm imagining usually that most of these creators aren't making a TON of money but they're usually the ones getting invited to places by like Bill Gates to record videos about stuff that few other creators will ever have a chance at getting access to, so they see consistent revenue from Youtube and sponsors as a result & that can build into doing stuff outside of the platform like Tom Scott's various BBC stuff.

• B: The Patreon-centric route where it is typically just the creator and maybe various editors/writers/camerapeople they hire as needed for videos. They're making a bunch usually on Patreon and this eventually shows in equipment, editing software, etc like you've mentioned. Videos tend to taper off but they release as needed to keep the Patreon money flowing or try other things like podcasting, etc.

• C: The "I'm just doing this for fun really" creator who invariably gets millions of subs from their genuinely interesting/well-shot videos. KiwamiJapan, Rescue & Restore, Histocrat, etc who all likely have actual jobs or other hobbies, post like the wind (which can come and go in frequency, as wind does), and don't really seem to care about monetization or sponsors.

And 99 percent of those podcasts are just incoherent stream of conscious ramblings that could be edited down to 10 minutes of worthwhile content There's at best one person there you want ro hear from while some #2 constantly interrupts with unfunny jokes.

Thousands of people smh

I don't disagree overall with your response but I'm not really sure where you're coming from by saying that I'm approaching Breadtube as a socialist project.

I was just giving mention to the obvious criticisms of Breadtube that are already out there before moving on to my point, which is that many of the largest creators seem to accumulate a big Patreon base before basically dipping out of creating content save for a couple of videos per year.

I could be wrong about this next part but I don't think anybody has ever claimed that BreadTube was an educational project to further advance the working class' struggles.

I know this is gonna come off as a "look it up, bro - it's true!!" response but it's a really common refrain from within the hardcore fanbases of Breadtubers and streamerbros for fans to claim that "they've done more for the left than anyone else." This comes up as one of the first defences of people like Vaush, Keffals, and especially Beau of the Fifth Column. With Beau, if I ever come across someone who supports him, I point out that they're supporting a convicted human trafficker and it's usually a 50/50 chance they'll resort to this defence straight off the bat. They will also often repeat this refrain in their echo-chambers about how tankies are completely insignificant and how their favourite content creator has done more for the left than tankies ever have (yet simultaneously, they'll claim tankies are so disproportionate in their influence that they're ruining socialism for everyone else. Odd how tankies are so weak and yet so strong at the same time 🤔🤔)

I wouldn't recommend engaging with these people but if you do then it becomes pretty obvious that it's not just a parasocial relationship they have with their favourite YouTubers but it's also kinda like a parapolitical or para-activist relationship they have with them as well.

If people wanted to do this, they would've already done so.

I wouldn't deny it.

I don't think them donating to BreadTube would stop them from doing so.

I'm of a different opinion here. I think with the diehard believers they really do have a sort of false consciousness and they believe that they're funding something that's greater than infotainment and because of that they're less likely to put their donations towards something which is politically impactful.

Not to mention the donations are so geographically distributed that if these donations did go to local grassroots orgs instead it'd probably be negligible amounts

Maybe. But a ton of orgs run on a shoestring and even if it was only in the most populous cities in the west like New York and LA and London, if the money from places like that were going to grassroots orgs instead of Patreon I think it would make a significant difference.

But then again there's absolutely no way of proving this claim since no-one but Patreon would have the demographic data of patrons and the amount they donate so this is pure speculation.

anybody has ever claimed that BreadTube was an educational project to further advance the working class' struggles

Even people here did sometimes, some of those people were me (though from an infotainment angle which challenges the ideological hegemony a bit).

I could be wrong about this next part but I don't think anybody has ever claimed that BreadTube was an educational project to further advance the working class' struggles. Youtuber making videos and their fans voluntarily supporting them with donations isn't a grift because the Youtuber hasn't claimed that it will help the class struggle or help bring forth communism

BadEmpanada's one good video provides a counterpoint: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=23h9emj2_Rw

It seems clear that a good number of people involved think this is what "the left" is

I gotta be honest with you. If I see someone touting the three arrows I treat them with suspicion because they either don't know their history or, worse yet, they do know their history.

After what the SPD did in the twilight of the Weimar Republic I find it difficult to understand anyone who would proudly use their symbols. This is especially relevant when we're discussing a German historian, of all people.

That's a good question.

I've had a look from behind the paywall and she seems to be releasing vlog style videos about once a month. I can't tell how long they are or what the production values are like but going by the titles it looks like stuff where she is just chatting about the Barbie movie, the new atheist movement, her experience with psychedelics as well as releasing outtakes from the videos released on her YouTube channel.

It's fair to say that she isn't doing nothing but still, she seems to be bringing in big cash for pretty minimal content.

More costumes than substance, and the remaining substance tends to be "Tabby is so ridiculous, amirite?"