this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2025
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Love her or hate her (and my opinions are mixed), I must confess, JK Rowling was a huge influence on why I didn't become a regular author. No shade on people who get what they paid for, but the young reader crowd is just so gimmicky, and not in a good way, and you see that with a lot of works like Percy Jackson and Twilight (but also predominantly with Rowling's work). How do you compete in such a no-rules game?

So then let's talk about one of the cores of the issue. People often have an epiphany when divulging into Harry Potter, and they think "huh, what's the deal with this if that thing is how it is". While noting that conflicts in literary analysis don't always reflect something that doesn't add up and that it could be a hiccup in details/semantics, the questions themselves don't go away. And there's nothing that matches the amount of those having to do with Harry Potter. What example of which strikes you as the most overlooked?

If Rowling herself ever notices that I'm bringing this up, let it be known I do think of her work as a reskinned Brothers Grimm in the universe of The Worst Witch and that I'm collaborating with another author (Samantha Rinne) whose work I would argue deserves Rowling's prestige if Rowling's work deserves it. Thanks (and here is where I run for the hills).

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[–] thirteene@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago

Irrational soft magic system - anything can happen for any reason, so the story doesn't matter at all.

[–] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 1 day ago (6 children)

I don't know if it's a plot hole per se, but when do they learn maths and science? If they' at Hogwarts for 7 years, and they only learn magic, when exactly do they learn the usual subjects? Are they just stupid because they don't learn them?

[–] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago (5 children)

While I think that can be explained away with the idea that the magic is so OP they don't actually need to know science. To use the Rowlings own tidbit as an example, why bother with toilets when you can simply magic away your shit.

And that also leads to what IMO is the biggest plot point nobody really thinks about. That there's a secret society of magic users who almost exclusively use magic, and the "muggle" society has no idea of its existence.

Think about all the things we've discovered. Electromagnetism is pretty much magic, we figured that out. Atoms are pretty much magic, not only did we figure out atoms we figured out what atoms consist of. Einstein predicted black holes, something so out there that even Einstein doubted his prediction, we later discovered and modeled it. We can literally come up with absolutely insane ideas and then come up with ways to prove or disprove those ideas. There's no chance we wouldn't figure out the existence of magic and a secret society if we saw glimpses of something that makes us go "hmm, that's interesting".

You could argue that they use magic to hide magic from us, but they'd have to know about what we are doing to make sure we don't accidentally stumble into discovering magic. But Arthur Weasley makes it pretty clear wizards don't understand how our world works. They don't know what we're doing so their secret society is literally at the mercy of us not just noticing it.

So the secret of society pretty much exists on the premise that we're too stupid to figure out Magic, but smart enough to create the society we have.

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[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 day ago

I think like the vast majority of them are just dumb and some are like savants. Everyone other than like a couple people in the book are just copying magic routinely. Only Snape and a few other characters are cooking up any new magic theory.

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 day ago

That would explain a lot of the nonsense in their society

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[–] Hudell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 1 day ago

Not really a plot hole, but a missed opportunity. Dumbledore's Phoenix could have shown up to help Snape - putting Harry in a mindfuck state as he would know both that Snape killed him and that Snape was loyal to him.

[–] Tamo240@programming.dev 46 points 1 day ago (5 children)

The plot has already being discussed at length. I want to talk about quidditch.

Quick recap, in quidditch, scoring goals scores 10 or 20 points, catching the snitch scores 150 points, and ends the game. This effectively means that the only way a team can catch the snitch and lose is if they are over 150 points behind.

As a result of this, logically the seaker should not attempt to catch the snitch if the score is this unfavourable, meaning the game is always decided by the seaker, and nothing anyone else is doing remotely matters. Remember also we see the audience is rarely able to see what the seeker is doing from the stands.

Now you may say "what about the world cup in book 4, Krumm catches the snitch and still loses". This can only be attributed to Krumm got mad at his team, or maybe bored, otherwise he should just wait and see if his team can score a goal or two. If the other team's seaker catches the snitch you lose anyway, so why even try until it's going to win you the game? Maybe he was showing off to Hermione.

We also know for certain that this happens very rarely, as the odds given to the twins by Ludo Bagman are very high, leading to a big payout. Therefore quidditch is entirely decided by something that happens well out of sight of the audience, and would be terrible to watch or play.

As an aside, the rules around catching the snitch leading to a draw are never mentioned, but I assume they have some penalty shootout system

[–] Evotech@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Quidditch is a game designed solely for Harry Potter to be special. And it shows

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago

It was actually designed specifically to piss off sports fans because the scoring is illogical.

[–] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Quick recap, in quidditch, scoring goals scores 10 or 20 points, catching the snitch scores 150 points

Idk how canon this is, but I remember a quidditch computer game I used to play (on Windows XP) where usually when you scored your team would get the ball through the hoops multiple times in rapid succession, so scoring like 5 times in a row. Like if in basketball, if your team caught the ball after making a hoop you could pass it back and shoot again. That at least makes the point value of the snitch less egregious. Everything else you mentioned is very true though.

[–] MY_ANUS_IS_BLEEDING@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

I think I remember that, Quidditch world cup? It was like a special move for Slytherin in the training chapter.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Additionally there could be games where the snitch is caught within the first minute of the game. Ending it early and everyone can go back home.

For a game theory perspective that's what every team should be focusing on, instead of faffing about with the clubs.

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[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Like a hundred or so teenagers of whom a large part went to some regular school and had regular non-wizard friends would suddenly either completely cut off contact as if devoured by a cult or dead or the kids are assumed to just successfully lie about not being fucking magic.

It's utterly ridiculous. Imagine if it was hidden from the Dursley's somehow and that Harry spent summers there bullied by Dudley. That he would never snap and tell or do magic?

Or that people like Dudley would keep their mouth shut for their entire lives?

Nah.

[–] MY_ANUS_IS_BLEEDING@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Most of the kids didn't go to Muggle schools or interact with them. Harry's situation was uncommon.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

In Harry's year, there were 4 Muggleborns (Hermione, Dean, Justin, Sally-Anne) out of 40 students.

That's 10 percent.

Plus half-wizard families would also have family wondering where their nephew has disappeared to.

Also, does that mean that full wizard kids aren't in any government register, so that they don't technically have citizenship, and they just never interact with the world?

It's utterly ridiculous that there would live two communities on top of each other with so Lucy much blending yet zero communication.

What, pens/pencils don't work in Hogwarts, or even if they don't work there, they still do their scribing with comically large feather quill and ink? Quill and ink work, but... fountain pens wouldn't?

No wizard would be greedy enough to completely abuse the fact that their gold money is an infinite money glitch if you sell it as bullion.

And I remind you, these peoples foremost expert on muggle technology doesn't know what a rubber duck is for. Can't he just walk into a library and read a basic book?

One just has to make the massive leap for people's forgetting about their relatives and what muggle-born / half-wizards might actually want to do. Like you had personality and aspirations at 11. Prolly not moreso than magic schools, but after graduating, are you really gonna go back to a world which doesn't have pencils and doesn't allow you to read a dictionary when the first 11 years of your life you loved everything technical.

Is your info from that time now banned? Are you banned from just returning to a muggle life? Or can't you do magic if you do? Not even around your siblings who all know? (There's 8 of them btw. 8 muggle siblings you have who aren't wizards but know about magic.)

And we're supposed to think shit like that doesn't happen.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago (14 children)

Who would believe him? If Dudley or his family started claiming there were wizards out to get them they would go to the Looney bin.

They can also mind wipe people. In Fantastic Beasts Newt obliviates all of New York City with the Thunderbird.

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[–] son_named_bort@lemmy.world 70 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why doesn't Hagrid, who is the largest of the characters, simply eat Voldemort?

[–] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)
[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Well, we'll have to ignore the gaping plot-induced stupidity on display by practically everyone throughout the entire story, because without it the books would have been quite short. So setting that aside, because I'm sure it's been trampled to death already.

The complete unwillingness for the wizarding world to utilize even basic Muggle technologies and knowledge is absolutely baffling. It's insinuated that they don't need Muggle things because they can substitute them with magic which is "equivalent." This is self-evidently hokum.

These idiots still write with quills, read by candlelight, don't use the Internet, and despite having literal magic at their disposal their communication systems (such as they are) are laughably inferior to common Muggle ones even in the context of the time period in which the story is supposedly set. Come on. Owls?

Magic users demonstrate basically no understanding of science and are all demonstrably the worse off for it, still having a nearly medieval understanding of how the world works, and rely on magic as a crutch to weakly compensate. This even when it's obvious to an outside observer that a basic piece of mundane knowledge or technology would be not only easier and significantly less dangerous than whatever the fuck their homegrown solution is, but also more effective. This is treated in supplementary works by Rowling as if it's a point of pride by wizards and witches who deliberately eschew anything of Muggle origin -- even if this means going to great lengths to shoot themselves in the foot simply to maintain that attitude of aloofness, which only serves to underscore the sheer stupidity apparently heavily ingrained into magical culture.

The fact that neither Harry nor none of the other Muggleborn kids are puzzled by this, nor why they apparently deliberately fail to bring so much as a common yellow #2 pencil with them from the mundane world out of sheer habit makes zero sense. (And yes, this is touched upon in the already recommended Methods of Rationality.)

Magical consumer goods are also seriously customer hostile. Who the fuck thought even half of those things were a desirable marketable product? Is there an evil wizard version of Willy Wonka lurking around someplace? Think of all the pocket change a Muggleborn lad could make by bringing a case of jelly beans with him to school to sell to his classmates where you don't have a one in twenty chance of one of them tasting like earwax. Or chocolates that can't hop away from you when you aren't looking. I mean, for fuck's sake.

And following from the above, everyone is so concerned about the damage to the karma done by the unforgivable spells, or whatever, which is supposedly why nobody goes to all-out war with the Death Eaters. But then no one gets the brain cells together to realize that Voldemort and especially his goons are surely vulnerable to conventional weapons. All anyone has to do is camp in a corner with a shotgun and then call out they-who-must-not-be-named, enticing them to appear to simply get Swiss Cheesed before having clue one what's going on. Maybe Voldy can't be truly killed by any form of physical harm, but the entire premise of the story begins with the observation that he can be put to considerable inconvenience, putting him down for quite some time, and thus buy the protagonists plenty of time to figure out his stupid riddles and find all his horcruxes. Then simply drive over whatever's left of him with a steamroller.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago

These idiots still write with quills, read by candlelight...

And it's worth noting—the items they use are still technology! Muggle technology, presumably. They just decided not to advance past a medieval technology level, which is presumably the last time they were actually more advanced than non-magical people.

[–] OriginalUsername7@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (6 children)

I think there’s a bit in the first book where Harry says his parents were shot, and Hagrid laughs and says no muggle gun could have killed them.

But like, why not? It’s never explained. I’m sure if they survived being shot, magic medicine would sort them out pretty quickly. But there’s no reassign to think a gun couldn’t kill them. Wizards struggle to react fast enough to block spell s most of the time, and bullets seem to move faster than that.

I think the hardest part would be successfully ambushing Voldy, but no reason to think a gun wouldn’t fuck him up if you can hit him.

[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I think there’s a bit in the first book where Harry says his parents were shot, and Hagrid laughs and says no muggle gun could have killed them

No, there's not. Harry thinks they died in a car crash. He remembers a green light, but he never imagined them getting gunned down on the street. The story doesn't happen in America, remember?

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[–] stelelor@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I can't remember if it's mentioned in the books, but I think the idea is that Muggle technology stops working in the presence of magic. Guns would jam, electronics would brick, etc.

Granted, this raises the question of where do you draw the line? For example, the magical world has countless exploding substances. What if they took some, stuffed it down a long metal tube, insterted a small metal object in front of it, then set fire to the explosive stuff from the back end? That's basically a gun or cannon, and it's hard to argue that it's technologically complex.

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[–] loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Aside from the very much sung "why didn't they use the time turner then", there's a bunch of "Why didn't they stop Voldemort then" that could be inserted at various points of the story; when you consider that:

1- Albus had a spy within the death eaters in the person if Severus Snape.

2- In "the Order of the Phoenix", while Voldy could take Albus 1 on 1, he retreated when more people arrived, implying they could gang up on him.

3- Sure they couldn't kill him without the horcruxes, but another important plot point is that they have a magical prison, staffed with creatures that absorb your life force. Sure, Azkaban seems like a joke considering the number of prisoners breaking out of it... But in the case of Sirius he could escape transformed as a dog because they didn't know he was an animagus and hadn't taken the relevant measures, and the rest were broken out from outside. Certainly, they could hold Voldy with the right measures. Albus was monitoring Voldemort and the death eaters activity the whole time. In the first book/movie, he even had him within his school, unknowingly sure, but he knew Voldemort was likely to try and get his hands on the philosopher's stone, and was just like "don't worry, it's well protected", not even trying to set up an ambush, or to pursue Voldemort once he knows he was there.

[–] lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

To be fair: With Dumbledoors measures with the mirror of erised they had kind of a trap. The philosophers stone obviously hidden behind some challenges, that are not really that strong, so an attacker would think the last one would also be easy. But there you only got the stonen if you didn't want to use itn ruling out people with nefarious intentions (Dumbledoor didn't know about Voldy in Quirrel at that time). To bad some first graders thought they needed to safe the stone. Quirrel would have been still thereuwhen Dumbledoor arrived, but Harry gave him and Voldy the opportunity to get the stone from him instead from the mirror. A bit of captain hindsight here. He maybe should have thought of that. Or maybe it is understandable that he didn't foresee Harry fucking Potter

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