this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025
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Summary

Elon Musk claims his Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is shutting down payments to federal contractors, including a Lutheran charity, asserting it is eliminating corruption.

This suggests DOGE has access to Treasury’s payment systems, though officials have not confirmed the extent.

Senator Ron Wyden warned that DOGE may interfere with Social Security, Medicare, and government contracts.

Musk also called USAID “a criminal organization” that should “die,” amid DOGE’s growing influence over federal financial operations.

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[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 116 points 6 days ago (3 children)
[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 45 points 6 days ago

And for people who don't like that word:

Regulatory capture of the entire United States government.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 26 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Can you guys maybe do something about this? You all have guns right, I thought that was the entire point of that part of the Constitution.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The point of that was to prevent the need for a standing military. The thought was a standing military would lead to tyranny

Texas used to have gun free towns (sort of, when you entered you left your gun with the sheriff)

Political parties were also a big nono, the runner up was supposed to be VP

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[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Yet, no one's doing anything about it or can do anything. These people are all powerful now. The White House, the House, the Senate, SCOTUS, Fed. Everything belongs to the Republican Party and they can do whatever, whenever. No checks and balances.

[–] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

I reject that defeatist attitude. It’s time for tax strike and general strike and mass protests across the country as next step

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[–] kungfuratte@feddit.org 55 points 6 days ago (2 children)

If the US government stops paying their bills at a certain point the country is technically defaulting. That's going to be fun.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 11 points 6 days ago (15 children)

Guess you’ll have to use crypto once your dollar is worthless

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 6 days ago (6 children)

I don't think crypto will replace USD as a global currency if USD fails.

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[–] wide_eyed_stupid@lemmy.world 51 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (9 children)

Can I ask? Why does Musk suddenly have this authority? "DOGE" isn't even a real Department, right? And also, Musk hasn't been elected or officially confirmed for any government position. Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don't understand how this works. Why doesn't the U.S. have any... I don't know, safeguards against this sort of shit? It's absolutely bonkers to watch this unfold from across the pond.

Musk just walked up, said "I'm in charge now" and everyone's just complying? Please ELI5.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 19 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Trump said he’s in charge in a private capacity

The Supreme Court is yet to say it’s not allowed

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[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

He doesn't. However, that is only according to this pesky technicality called "the law". If the President does not want to follow the law, and appoints people who also do not care for following the law, then the law stops being a thing to look for for authority; and Musk can do this because Trump says he can.

In the short term, expect this to be shut down by the courts. In the medium term, a bunch of these orders will end up in front of the Supreme Court that unironically said "if the president does it, it might be illegal, but he is absolutely immune from prosecution". Even if the SC come down on the only legally defensible position, Trump could still say "them and what army"

This is 100% a coup by Trump to centralize power in the executive. When staging a coup, "authority" is merely an inconvenience.

[–] Zess@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago

Everyone is not "just complying," two security directors of USAID were dismissed when they tried to stop the musky henchmen.

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 5 days ago (3 children)

“DOGE” isn’t even a real Department, right?

Technically, Trump just renamed the United States Digital Service to the United States DOGE Service, then created a child agency within it called the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization reporting directly to the President (which USDS does technically anyways) and hired Musk as a special government employee as head of that. A special government employee is essentially expected to work less than 130 days in the next year and are normally used to fill short term needs, or as expert topic consultants for specific projects, that sort of thing.

USDS is normally basically IT consultancy for other US departments, which is why he has access to a shocking number of keys to the kingdom, as it were.

And also, Musk hasn’t been elected or officially confirmed for any government position.

You don't have to be confirmed by the Senate for most government jobs (just a specific named handful of high ranking positions, like the Secretaries of various Cabinet Departments), and he was basically given the highest possible position he could without needing to be confirmed by the Senate.

Why the fuck is he giving orders and leading departments and having any power whatsoever over the U.S. Treasury and such? I don’t understand how this works.

The President has final authority and power over the executive branch and over time increasing power has been placed in the executive branch largely because Congress didn't want to fight over things every couple of years and the relative stability of a secondary agency staffed with experts was desirable for things like licensing radio bandwidth. USDS isn't one of these agencies though - it was created by Obama in 2014 to help manage US IT stuff (and basically started from the team that fixed the healthcare.gov site in 2013) and didn't need to be authorized by Congress because it doesn't have rulemaking power over anything outside the executive branch and thus doesn't require Congress to delegate power to it.

As for why he's giving orders and leading departments, legally he probably shouldn't be but he's also been assigned that power by Trump in a way that's questionably legal. There are at least 3 lawsuits that have been filed arguing that it's technically an advisory committee and in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act. I could totally see a federal judge agreeing with that, but it would eventually go to SCOTUS and we know who's dick they sucked to get there.

TL;DR: DOGE exists because it's an existing department (US Digital Service) renamed DOGE, Musk was hired under that department in basically the highest spot that wouldn't require Senate confirmation and because that department is essentially cross-departmental IT consultancy it gives him access to a shocking amount of federal IT resources. He isn't being stopped because everyone involved ultimately reports to Trump and Trump has told him to do it. There are at least three lawsuits filed claiming the United States DOGE Service Temporary Organization is in violation of the Federal Advisory Committee Act, but since it's only existed for like 10 days the courts haven't really had a chance to even hear arguments about it yet.

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[–] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 57 points 6 days ago

Good to know that our elected officials in the legislative branch are no longer able to create laws that are actually enacted.

This shit is outside the scope of the presidency.

[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 50 points 1 week ago (8 children)

How is anyone permitting any of these people to have authority?

[–] cultsuperstar@lemmy.world 25 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Trump's government is basically pay-to-play and Elon paid the most so he gets to do whatever he wants.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

So I was looking at this today. It looks like a combination of serendipity and malicious behavior. The US Digital Service was effectively leaderless on Jan 20 when it was renamed DOGE. That's the serendipity. But it was already "excepted service" under the president instead of a congressionally chartered agency. So they could (and likely would have) simply fire any leadership.

USDS' purpose was to fix computer systems all over the government. And it was doing a great job of that. But in order to do that it does get access other agencies don't. This is where the malicious part comes in. Trump turns them into DOGE and links them with lawyers and HR people. They use their existing access authorization to get into systems and then do HR stuff instead of systems engineering. Furthermore they aren't currently funded, which means they shouldn't be operating at all. Their last funding ran out in September.

Trump can just appoint people to it because he has a wide ranging authority to do temporary hires. Another malicious catch though is Musk is clearly operating DOGE but he hasn't been put on payroll.

This is illegal, and there are lawsuits already filed. But they're counting on people not understanding the intricacies of the different kinds of federal service to enact their plan. Which to me is pretty transparently to force all agencies to submit to DOGE as a stand in for the White House and an end run around all laws about the civil service. Basically an unconstitutional power grab by the President.

[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago

Because we're all just people and at the end of the day some person is agreeing to not dispense the funds or not provide aid or to round up individuals ... Until there is meaningful pushback by people who actually are carrying this bullshit out it won't change.

Idk same as how the Nazis managed the Holocaust, at the end of the day thousands of individuals agreed and did their part to exterminate the Jews. Same as how Israel now is committing an ongoing genocide in Gaza with their military and all those individuals are carrying out their orders.

Authority, like many other things in our society, is an emphemeral concept we all agree to. Authority is given when we agree to abide by what that authority says. Same like our laws, sure we have laws against things but it's not like those actually mean anything if they're not obeyed by the majority. Nothing stopping you from doming Elon with the a large brick if you got one and can get close enough, you know what I mean?

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[–] ansiz@lemmy.world 47 points 6 days ago

Musk is himself a giant government contractor via Space X and Starlink. Odds are he's just trying to clear the board to funnel the money to his businesses. Especially when it comes to defense money!

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 32 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Not paying contractors, a plan straight out of the Trump playbook.

[–] KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I pray they're dumb enough to stop payments to Lockheed it Raytheon. Problem might solve itself

[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 9 points 6 days ago

Mess with the military industrial complex. A wise plan for the Twits, Musk and Trump.

[–] Mnemnosyne@sh.itjust.works 41 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Remember when people were posting articles on how stupid and ridiculous DOGE is because it wouldn't have the authority to do anything?

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 52 points 6 days ago

It's still stupid and ridiculous and it still doesn't have any legal authority.

Unfortunately, it is being allowed to act without legal authority.

[–] Killer@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago (2 children)

He doesn't need the authority if he just forces his way in.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 15 points 6 days ago

Grabbed America by the pussy

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[–] AfricanGrey@lemmy.zip 35 points 6 days ago (7 children)

I sure hope this was worth it to hate on the trans and the browns. That's the only thing dumb ass Americans voted for in 2024.

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[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago (5 children)

I see lawsuits flooding the US government for not paying for things they ordered.

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Sorry the number you are trying to reach has been disconnected.

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[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 26 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The US isnt good for their money. Creditors should demand their debts or threaten legal consequences in the form of international sanctions

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[–] twistypencil@lemmy.world 30 points 6 days ago
[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 26 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Contractors handle Medicare.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 24 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Contractors run our military

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[–] rasakaf679@lemmy.ml 21 points 6 days ago

Could have used the thumbnail with his famous salute

[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I wonder at what point people are going to use force to stop this coup, at this point everyone is just watching laws and systems being broken and dimantled with no regard.

Is the media in the US that controlled that their people just don't see what is happening?

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[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

You guys think we're gonna get tax returns this year?

I bet we don't.

[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

So, time to stop paying federal students loans and income taxes, eh?

Edit: student loans would be more difficult because loan default but the W4 can be adjusted so no income is deducted for Federal taxes. One would just have to be sure to put that money aside in a savings account ~~to pay next year with no current impact in this tax year~~. Looks like there would have to be some quarterly payments or one would otherwise incur penalties. So it'd be a bit tricky to pull off cleanly. Maybe someone better at tax code could figure out a way to just do this quarterly.

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[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

And still not a peep from anyone in position to stop it

[–] LordGimp@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago

Lmfaooooo I just turned down a contractor position at NASA Ames. Applied for a full time position, went through interviews and even a facility tour, just to be offered part time temp to hire. Get fucked lmaooo

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