this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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Reports of US Documentation Agents Confiscating Trans Peoples Passports (slrpnk.net)
submitted 22 hours ago by spaduf@slrpnk.net to c/lgbtq_plus@lemmy.blahaj.zone
45 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Source in pic: https://homestead.social/@lily/113878607769958499

Secondary confirmation: https://bsky.app/profile/erinryanhey.bsky.social/post/3lggfjx55vk2w

Anecdotally, I've seen several more reports.

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[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 80 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

I'm disappointed that the majority of top level replies to this post is a bunch of people deciding to jump in and question its validity. Yeah, it may not be true. But it also could be true, because bigots feel empowered at the moment and may well act in the way described even if they're not technically "meant" to.

So yes, express caution and don't assume everything you read is true, but conversely don't come in to a queer space, in the middle of an active movement against gender diverse folk, and fill the comment section with denials and second guessing, as if everything is fine and its business as usual, as if people are being unreasonable for being concerned

[–] koper@feddit.nl 17 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I'm disappointed that you're so indifferent about the truth. Leaving this misinformation to spread does real damage to trans people, who might now become too afraid to change their gender marker. Even when, as many have pointed out, there was no change of policy and this is mostly handled at the state level.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

No one knows the truth here. I don't know whether it happened or not.

But what I do know is that a bunch of people who are not normally in this space suddenly joining in the conversation to tell trans people that they're being unreasonable for worrying about stuff like this is not on. One or two comments, whatever, but when the majority of comments are non regulars telling trans people the world is ok, despite it clearly not being, it's time to step in.

[–] koper@feddit.nl 6 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

There are many reasons to be frightened. It just doesn't help to add fictional stories (or at best secondhand anecdotes) to that. Resistance against oppression requires accurate information about what happens, not wild speculation about things that "could have happened".

Telling everyone to stop changing their gender registration is wild and would warrant for more evidence than "I heard from a friend". That's terrible advice and you can't just shrug that off by saying you don't know the truth.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 minute ago

There are many reasons to be frightened. It just doesn't help to add fictional stories (or at best secondhand anecdotes) to that.

This is what I mean. You are so sure it's a lie, something that you don't know for sure either, to the extent that you're willing to actively encourage gender diverse people to throw caution to the wind and put their complete faith in a system that was actively working against their interests even before the new president was elected.

Caution is warranted. A bunch of non regular posters to this community seeing this post and deciding to tell trans people that it's all ok, and that they should continue to trust the system, that their caution is unwarranted? If you don't see how being part of that chorus is a problem, then I don't know what to tell you...

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 20 minutes ago

The ACLU has said:

All applications for gender marker change are on hold while the State Department changes this policy.

Anyone who now submits an application for a change runs the risk of losing access to their passport and documents while their application is being processed.

[–] araneae@beehaw.org 4 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

There is necessarily a scarcity of info and a period of rumor verification. I find it likely state agents are ignoring the letter of the law to do whatever they want because that is as much a part of fascism as operating within the law.

Add onto that the fact that mainstream social media is entirely at the whim of bad guys and it may be hard to get the truth until suddenly Erin Reed or someone writes about it.

You need to get out of here if this is personally making you panic. We're okay without your help.

[–] stray@pawb.social 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Once codified into law, would the recent executive order not invalidate the legal identification of everyone who doesn't have their sex assigned at birth listed?

A [State] department webpage that described how people could change their gender marker was taken offline, and Chase Strangio, an ACLU lawyer, said it’s unlikely that any new application to change the gender marker on a passport will be approved.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-transgender-passports-prisons-eggs-sperm-da1d1d280658a8c85c57cfec2f30cefb

[–] koper@feddit.nl 2 points 7 hours ago

I appreciate the question, but this is actually quite different from what is claimed in the screenshot.

The state department will stop changing the gender registration on new passports to "X", at least for now. This doesn't cause anyone to lose their documents. It also doesn't affect anyone changing their registration with the state or local government, which is much more important.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Dr. Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger: That is not - no, that is contrary to what the Chancellery has been told. I have directly been assured - I have - that - purge the Jews, yes, but to annihilate them - that we have undertaken to systematically annihilate all the Jews of Europe - that possibility has personally been denied, to me, by the Führer!

Reinhard Heydrich: And it will continue to be.

Conspiracy, 2000, based on the translations of the Wannsee Conference, 1942, Berlin

[–] ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Good quote.

And in a similar fashion to what is happening here, when survivors managed to escape first Nuremberg laws Germany, then ghettos and eventually death camps across Europe and report to the outside world what was being done to them, they were categorically ignored, and dismissed as fantasists and fear mongers (those damn Jews, trying to guilt us in to letting them in to our country!) for a good few years, while the extermination only intensified.

People who will believe a fascist government, but not its victims, are telling on themselves, and are actively participating in our oppression.

[–] princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Did the US ever issue passports with an X gender marker for its own citizens? I didn't think they had, so what this reads like to me is that I, an Australian, would be detained at the border.

It's also a more extreme act than mere confiscation if it's being done to American citizens. I'll also note that the X gender marker is, in part, intended for use by intersex people. Alongside the recent EO erasing us from public life, from using any bathrooms.

I don't know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is please have solidarity for us intersex folks. Please talk about us, about how it may be affecting us.

[–] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 12 hours ago

The US did issue passports with an x gender marker. The first one was issued in 2021 after a lawsuit, and the option was on the official paperwork in 2022. Most would usually advise against doing so as many countries do not recognize the X gender, and would deny entry as a result. Be aware of where you want to travel and that those countries are accepting before you commit to the X marker.

That was before the newest administration. It remains to be seen how things will play out in future as many executive orders will be blocked in the courts. Executive orders are the lowest tier federal legislation, overruled by nearly everything else.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 13 hours ago

You know, when the special designations came out my generational trauma came up and all I can think of was choosing to get a Star of David and juden written on you.

I always thought this was a trap.

[–] frickineh@lemmy.world 89 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

This isn't true, at least not entirely. I work at an office that accepts passport applications and we haven't received any communication regarding gender markers from the new administration. I can't speak to whether this is the policy at regional passport centers, and I fully expect these Project 2025 sacks of shit to come out with something hateful sooner than later, but at the moment, nothing has been issued.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 96 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

It’s possible that the agent that did this did so understanding that they would face no consequences for it, regardless of whether it was true or not. Which means regardless of whether it’s official policy, it may be something trans people want to take into account before handing over any documents.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 13 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Yup, this is my guess. Whether or not it’s official policy doesn’t matter; The bigot behind the clerk’s desk is confiscating paperwork regardless. It’s possible their superiors don’t even know about it, and they’re just quietly shredding the IDs without telling anyone else in the office.

But the important point is that the bigot feels empowered to do so, because they don’t believe they’ll face any repercussions for it. We need to make bigots afraid again…

[–] ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Your, or even any, office not receiving official orders doesn't make this not true.

[–] frickineh@lemmy.world 22 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

I mean, saying people should avoid updating their documents because this is the new policy is, in fact, untrue. Also, most of the documents listed are handled at the county or state level, not the federal level, so it's going to be extremely location-dependent, other than passports.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

If you haven’t already updated your federal documents then it is probably too late. At least until these shits are gone.

[–] frickineh@lemmy.world 9 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Oh I'm sure it is - my office has had quite a few people in to change gender markers recently, which wasn't a surprise. However, updating a drivers license or doing a name change may still be possible, especially for people who may not plan to travel internationally.

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 19 hours ago

True, it’s just a huge blow because updated federal ID documents were an easy fall back for trans people living in states where they can’t update their state level documents, for whatever reason.

[–] ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

For starters, you made a blanket statement about the post in its entirety claiming it, and the experience of the person who made it, isn't true, you can backpedal now, but that's what you did.

Secondly:

so it’s going to be extremely location-dependent, other than passports.

In other words

Your, or even any, office not receiving official orders doesn’t make this not true.

Thirdly:

https://theintercept.com/2025/01/23/marco-rubio-state-department-passports-gender-trans-nonbinary/

You not being comfortable confronting reality doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[–] frickineh@lemmy.world 16 points 18 hours ago

What in my comments gives you the impression I'm not comfortable "confronting reality"? I'm under no illusions about what the Trump administration is planning and how many people they're going to hurt. I'm just saying that it's not a policy to confiscate someone's passport based on their gender marker at this time.

[–] ShareMySims@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Just going to leave this here for the denial club:

RUBIO ORDERS STATE DEPARTMENT TO STOP ISSUING ACCURATE PASSPORTS TO TRANS PEOPLE

[–] koper@feddit.nl 7 points 10 hours ago

Stop issuing "x" passports isn't the same as confiscating existing documents, let alone for everyone who requests any change (as this post claims). Also this only applies to the federal government.

[–] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 69 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Not to sound insensitive, but this is just a social media post quoting another social media post without proof or the ability to verify anything.

[–] stray@pawb.social 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I can't actually imagine what proof of this situation would look like.

[–] koper@feddit.nl 1 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

If this was real it would have affected thousands of people and enough media outlets would have picked it up. This social media post isn't even first hand experience, it's what they allegedly heard from someone else.

[–] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 3 points 6 hours ago

Personally, I would expect more than just a social media post. A second social media post repeating what they read in the first post shouldn't count as evidence or confirmation.

[–] stray@pawb.social 6 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't think media coverage is a very reliable gauge of truth in a society where the media is controlled by oligarchs. On top of everything that that's been going on, a journalist just got fired for calling Elon Musk a Nazi.

It's also pretty common for marginalized people to relate their problems secondhand because victims don't always want the public eye on them. Yes, victims should go to the authorities, but it's often easier said than done even when the authorities aren't well-known for dismissing victims and/or furthering their abuse.

e: To clarify, I don't think it's true that what the official said is policy; I think that person is probably lying. What I mean is that the incident itself is very plausible, and I have a policy of believing victims if there isn't a good reason not to, especially where it may protect others.

[–] koper@feddit.nl 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I get your point and I certainly don't trust some media to give me all the facts. But there are still plenty of outlets who would have published about this if it happened at any systemic level. That's as close as you can get to proving a negative.

There are many other bigoted things that Trump did do. We should probably discuss that, instead of panickingly telling people to stop changing their registered gender. That's terrible advice given the very limited evidence.

[–] SoupBrick@yiffit.net 14 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Seconded. In these times, evidence is key to avoiding unnecessary panic. It is pretty easy to get with the technology we have in our pockets.

If you experience this, please collect whatever information you can to establish a pattern or keep a historical record.

Edit: I am not discounting this person's experience. Evidence is important when you are trying to get people on board with your cause. Otherwise it might come off as fear mongering.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I guess that's one way to stop minorities from voting. Keep/encourage strict voter identification laws, then take away identification from the undesirables...

[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 32 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I have a friend who preemptively deadnamed themselves and put their born-sex on their passport like a month ago. It’s not right

[–] Elgenzay@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

As in, they reverted their name? Why?

[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 19 points 16 hours ago

Because they were worried about their passport not being considered valid if they try to leave the country. They live in a dangerous place to be queer.

[–] arisunz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 17 hours ago

god that's absolutely fucked, i thought you all might have some more time left before shit like this started popping up

sharing everywhere i can

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 29 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

This is not official Government policy. It's just one transphobic employee getting a bit ahead of themselves.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 2 points 20 hours ago

It certainly hasn’t stopped people from reading one social media post on Mastodon and tearing around the internet shouting “BREAKING NEWS”.

Thanks random Central_Committee chatter who kicked off an hour-long detour of my workday trying to verify this

[–] cheers_queers@lemm.ee 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

does anyone know what happens if you got your name changed in time, but haven't had time to update DL/birth certificate? it's updated with social security and i have my new ss card. thx

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Those are handled at the state level, so it’ll probably depend on whether you’re in a red state trying to roll out similar policies ASAP or not. If you’re in a blue state or there have been no announced changes I’d try to get it changed sooner rather than later.