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ethnonationalism bad (files.catbox.moe)
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[-] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 54 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah your grandparents being victims of the same shit doesn't justify your actions, if anything it makes them worse since you should know better.

[-] aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee 30 points 3 weeks ago

As a russian I feel this a lot :/

[-] BluesF@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago

Oof. It's not been a good few, uh, decades to be a Russian. At least, it seems that way looking from the outside.

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[-] carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 48 points 3 weeks ago

i wonder why libs never apply this logic for Indigenous people on Turtle Island 🤔

[-] dogsoahC@lemm.ee 39 points 3 weeks ago

Or, like, Palestinians.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 20 points 3 weeks ago

Because Israel was always a colonialist project. The last one of a dead age. The people who like Israel think Thanksgiving was how settlers treated the Indigenous Americans.

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[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 weeks ago

They aren't arguing in good faith

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[-] anarchrist@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 3 weeks ago

Also they could have done some land reparations without stealing Palestinian land, if anyone gave a shit. Pretty sure one of the countries that lost the war had a place called Judenberg already, for example.

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[-] wes7ley@real.lemmy.fan 24 points 3 weeks ago

Having grown up in evangelical Christianity, I don’t quite understand the attack on liberals here?

Zionism is a major part for the conservative manifesto to create the New Jerusalem to bring forth the return of Jesus. Evangelicals view Jews as reluctant Christians yet to accept their king.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 14 points 3 weeks ago

Liberals support Israel because of Cold War propaganda labeling. That evolved into the good guys versus terrorism propaganda we have now, which blinded us to things like stealing land, the blockade, interfering in elections, and indefinite detainment without charges or trial. It was all hand waived because "terrorists". But in reality it was the only way left for them to try to defend their sovereignty.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 7 points 3 weeks ago

It has been a political wedge issue used as a weapon by conservatives. Liberal buy-in to zionism is its primary support system.

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[-] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It's funny how Europeans didn't feel the needed to give any of their land to the Jews, even though they're responsible for the Holocaust.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago

What?!? This was a perfect opportunity to ~~get rid of Jews and Brown people at the same time~~ settle the promised land! Did you really expect the ~~racists~~ upstanding European leaders not to take it?

[-] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 11 points 3 weeks ago

Maybe because Britain had already mandated a Zionist quasi-state (that would eventually become modern day Israel) and Zionist Jews were already migrating there even before the Holocaust? Or are we simply ignoring that part of history?

[-] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

No, we're not ignoring Britain's culpability at all. I guess you don't get that Palestine wasn't Britain's land to give, or all the homes and farms Zionist seized.

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[-] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

Actually, allot of countries let some lands for jews, but they don't want it. They want specifically they holly land.

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Every ~~Balkan~~ (edit:) European country: 🥸

isn't that literally the definition of zionism? Why is this even a meme?

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 30 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Zionism at its most reductive and ideal is the idea that Jewish people should have a state/homeland that will never persecute them for being Jewish.

In theory, that is what Joe Fucking Biden meant when he told a crowd of Jewish people that he was a Zionist.

The problem starts when you start asking questions like: "How do you do that?" and the actual Zionists, surprisingly, aren't that interested in the creation of a secular state, or what's going to happen to the non-Jewish people already living there.

So, that's the meme. The conflict between the ideal and the reality, this weird thought space between concept and reality that really only takes a person thinking one step ahead to notice but liberals, like Joe Biden, didn't and don't.

If you're being generous to liberals, and not a realist who knows they're active and knowledgeable participants.

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago

Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a 'modern' way to 'solve' the 'Jewish Question' of Europe. Western Nations supported this instead of instituting legal protections and refuge for Jewish people fleeing persecution.

Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.

Since at least the 1860's, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it's backing of the movement in order to 'solve' the 'Jewish Question' while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.

That's when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.

Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be 'Transferred' to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

Quote

Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

Ethnic Cleansing

Historian Works on the History

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[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Honoring cultural traditions - the super versatile Swiss Army Talking Point that works equally well for the good guys or the bad guys!

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this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
577 points (92.0% liked)

Lefty Memes

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