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[-] Steve@communick.news 61 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Which isn't the individual single use plastic bags every single item comes in.
It's just the one final plastic bag, all the other plastic bags are carried in.

I don't have a problem with the move myself. I'm single, with a supermarket just up the street. I use my own hand basket for my groceries. I never even use a cart.
But this policy always strikes me a tackling the smallest, least effective part of the problem. Banning plastic packaging would be FAR more effective. But also much harder. So this is just a way for politicians to seem like they are doing something, when they really aren't. In other words it's pandering.

[-] zabadoh@ani.social 43 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Like @TheTechnician27@lemmy.world said, this is closing a loophole that was in the original grocery bag reduction law.

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[-] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago

We can't afford to think like this. Climate is such an unthinkably massive issue that we need all of it, and then some more, and then some more.

There is no project big enough that we don't need 50,000 more projects of equivalent scope to get things where they need to be.

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[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

California has been working toward legislation that reduces plastic in packaging. It's not as good as it should be, but it represents about as much departure from the status quo I think California can reasonably get when people raise so much fuss over even superfluous things like plastic straws and grocery bags (and because California is already really throwing around their weight here in compelling out-of-state producers to change their manufacturing). And this new law is just closing a loophole on a 2014 law that at worst was actively making things worse or at best was making the law fail to address the issue. This isn't "pandering"; it's addressing a real, ongoing, actual issue in a sensible way.

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[-] Camzing@lemmy.world 32 points 5 days ago

I remember save the trees campaign years ago. I'm convinced it was all started by the plastic industry.

[-] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 24 points 5 days ago

Yup. Logging industry, at least in the US, is remarkably renewable. I remember reading that we have significantly more trees than we did 100 years ago because we’ve improved logging methods. No more clear cutting for pulp or lumber, proper replanting, and age-tracking for proper harvest.

In other words, saying “don’t use paper, save a tree” is akin to saying “don’t eat fries, save a potato.”

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 6 points 4 days ago

We have more trees, yes, but we have fewer forests.

Forests are where the biodiversity is. Not monoculture straight-row tree farms.

And we've gotten rid of a lot of old growth forests before we came into renewable forestry. That's partly why lumber these days isn't as good (quality, in general) as it was 50 or 100 years ago.

And we're still tearing down old forests. This time, it's to grow soy to feed to cows.

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While this is true, we should also remember that old growth forest, not tree plantations, are the most efficient at sequestering carbon and filtering/storing water.

Just because the timber industry is has been adopting renewable aspects, doesn't justify expanding it recklessly. Reducing demand and recycling as much paper as possible is still a key part of keeping our usage sustainable. Even if the trees grow back, there is still energy being lost to harvesting and processing. Tree falls are a major source of carbon sequestration in forests, which enrich the soil. If the trees are being harvested, that piece of the local cycle stops. I try to vary the locations that I collect kindling wood in my back woods so as not to deplete any area.

Trees are the most visible and obvious carbon sink. You can watch a tree grow over a few years by literally sucking carbon out of thin air. I live in a bog where the trees all fall down after a few years. Quite a few come down every windy season. You can see how they shape the landscape, dam waterflow, and turn into soil mounds. The dammed water helps to trap more plant matter and sequester more carbon. Removing the trees from this ecosystem by harvesting would interrupt this process. This process maintains the soil fertility. The trees still grow back for now, but our lack of consideration for soil health and for soil as a carbon sink reminds me of our attitude towards conventional industrial agriculture. If we keep treating the soil like this, will the trees keep growing back in 50 years without requiring artificial fertilizers and water filtration to replace the trees we extract?

[-] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 66 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)
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[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 41 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

good. My balls are already maxed out on microplastics

[-] dentoid@sopuli.xyz 20 points 5 days ago

Microplastic is stored in the balls

[-] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 days ago

Mine are stored in the toenails, Mountain Dew is stored in my balls.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Might need to get that looked at

[-] Wahots@pawb.social 19 points 4 days ago

Excellent! Now, please ban single use plastics in most consumer packaging. We devised solutions to many of these for centuries or longer before most stuff went to plastic unnecessarily. Very little actually requires single-use plastic.

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[-] itsonlygeorge@reddthat.com 35 points 5 days ago

Can we ban plastics in the fishing industry next?

[-] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 35 points 5 days ago

I know little to nothing about fishing on a commercial scale. What are viable alternatives to plastics in that industry?

[-] itsonlygeorge@reddthat.com 31 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Hemp it would be a viable alternative due to its rot resistant properties.

https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-great-pacific-garbage

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 20 points 5 days ago

Hemp was used as the primary material for this purpose until the oil industry helped feed the anti-cannabis movement.

[-] TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 16 points 5 days ago

Interesting. I was thinking more about lines and lures. It didn't occur to me that such a large amount of ocean trash would be plastic based rope and nets.

[-] itsonlygeorge@reddthat.com 23 points 5 days ago

Commercial fishing is terrible not only for the environment but leaves a large amount of trash in the ocean. It creates a ton of micro plastics and fucks up entire biomes.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 10 points 5 days ago

Commercial fishing is probably the biggest contributor to ocean plastic pollution.

Much like commercial industry is the biggest contributor to atmospheric pollution.

You know, I think I'm beginning to see a trend here.

[-] Cataphract@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 days ago

if you ever watch a documentary of the great pacific garbage patch it usually shows the most rampant and dangerous items from aquatic life tends to be discarded fishing nets. They all suck though, just nets suck more and get cut off all the time.

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[-] ripcord@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

What asshole downvoted a legit question of someone asking for more info on something they admit they don't know much about...?

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[-] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 45 points 5 days ago

We did it a while back, you will adapt pretty quickly.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 31 points 5 days ago

In Austin we had a ban. The state overrode it a year later, but the damage was done...everyone realized how much easier it is to carry groceries in large tote bags that you can sling over your shoulder.

[-] absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz 20 points 5 days ago

Or boxes; we use boxes. Carrying 3 - 4 boxes up stairs is much easier than 10 bags.

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[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 21 points 5 days ago

As long as it also requires them to carry paper bags that's perfect

[-] meliaesc@lemmynsfw.com 21 points 5 days ago

In my country (Jamaica) you either have to beg to use their old boxes from inventory or just carry it all out by hand if you forget your bags.

[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

In France they didn't always have bags available, and if they did they were usually for sale and were reusable. Everyone just brought their own bags.

[-] banshee@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

Canada works pretty well without them. If you forget your bags though you have to buy more.

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[-] Nikls94@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago

In Austria, we banned plastic bags ~ 5 years ago. We only have paper bags that are ~ 70c each. Before that we had 30c plastic bags.

Oh, and that is the price per bag. People here just get some high quality bags, baskets… and use them over and over.

[-] SSJMarx@lemm.ee 12 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Didn't we already do this like five years ago? I haven't seen a plastic shopping bag in a long time.

edit: single use plastic bags, this appears to be targeting the reusable ones too.

[-] paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 days ago

For anyone wondering why a new law would target reusable bags as well, the phrasing of the old law basically encouraged stores to replace single use plastic bags with reusable plastic bags. Reusable bags use more plastic so they're sturdier and last longer, but they were treated as single use bags anyways so functionally we were just producing and subsequently wasting more plastic.

I haven't read this new law but hopefully it encourages or requires actually using paper bags or cardboard boxes or something if you don't have your own reusable bag. It would be a shame if it just kicks the can down the road again and people buy reusable bags in the checkout aisle that they throw away when they get home instead of keeping in the car.

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[-] br0da@lemmy.world 21 points 5 days ago

My gf got me into bringing my own grocery bags and after a few times forgetting to bring them in, I got used to it. Now it’s automatic and can’t see doing it any other way.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 22 points 5 days ago

Crafty people: If you don't already, you should learn about plarn, aka yarn made from cut up disposable plastic shopping bags.

My wife makes it and turns it into forever bags.

https://warpedfibers.com/plastic-bag-yarn/

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[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 15 points 5 days ago

Great to see this. I have not seen someone bring their own bags except me in months.

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this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2024
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