Sacrilege rule : 196

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 100 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

D/A and A/D | Digital Show and Tell (Monty Montgomery @ xiph.org)

This is a video about the digital vs analog audio quality debate. It explains, with examples, why analog audio within the accepted limits of human hearing (20 Hz to 20 kHz) can be reproduced with perfect fidelity using a 44.1 kHz 16 Bit digital signal.

There is no audible difference between an analog and digital audio signal.

Among other things, xiph.org maintains the .flac and .ogg vorbis audio formats - they know a little about audio encoding and reproduction.

[–] Damage@slrpnk.net 19 points 4 months ago

"they're part of BIG DIGITAL!"

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[–] BodilessGaze@sh.itjust.works 74 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just don't mention the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem. Last time I did that I barely made it out of the record shop alive

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 35 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Physics? In my record store? GET OUT!

[–] GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk 9 points 4 months ago

"Noise floor? Don't be silly, it's analogue, there is no noise floor!"

[–] recklessengagement@lemmy.world 63 points 4 months ago (2 children)

One of the sillier reasons I still purchase vinyls is that it feels like I'm getting a cool poster along with the music

[–] volvoxvsmarla@lemm.ee 17 points 4 months ago

I buy CDs for the booklets (and am massively disappointed if there is none)

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 53 points 4 months ago (4 children)

For me it is less about the sound and more about playing music in a way that is devoid of any real software or internet connection.

I don't have to worry about ads, updates, connections, etc. Just other analog things like a bent needle or dust on the record.

It's like camping. No I don't like sleeping on the ground specifically but sometimes it is worth doing so to be somewhere else: disconnected.

[–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 42 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Or you could just buy a CD/DVD player or audio file player and have the same ad-free experience but with modern signal quality and for a fraction of the cost. Heck a saved library on a laptop running some kind of audio player like WinAMP and disconnected from the internet would also give you that experience. Could even use Windows XP or a classic Linux for that nostalgia since it wouldn't be internet connected.

[–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 18 points 4 months ago

Yeah, or have a meticulously organized multi-terabyte flac collection in your NAS you stream your music from...

[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I also have that set-up. Which is likely why there is something to enjoy from a purely analog sound system: I enjoy how the technology works, which isn't necessarily a sound quality experience.

[–] HonkTonkWoman@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago

I’m with ya. I watched Arachnophobia on VHS the other day, just because.

It looked like shit, sounded like shit, but the VHS nostalgia was worth it.

It also made appreciate the hell out of Dune 2 in 4K… sometimes old tech reminds me how good current tech is.

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[–] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I really like the comparison of analog media with camping!

Since owning a CD player i use my CDs more now than i did in 2010. Unfortunately Discogs shipping fees mean i can't buy most of the things i want

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[–] DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 46 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (12 children)

To think that analog mediums are superior to digital requires a fundamental misunderstanding of signals and the human range of hearing that you can only get from ~~placebo enthusiasts~~ "audiophiles"

(I am by no means shitting on actual audiophiles btw. I consider myself an amateur audiophile.)

Edit: should also clarify I'm not shitting on people who enjoy records. I'm shitting on people who strictly think analog is better than digital.

[–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 5 points 4 months ago

It used to be in the 80's when D/A converters were shit compared to the great 70's and 80's vinyl and tape players. Or in the 90's and 00's when most of the CDs were mastered loud and ugly. Nowadays it is what you say: digital really sounds better...

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[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 41 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I will happily pay the absurd modern prices for vinyl if I know for a fact there is a digital download card inside. Record companies need to put a fucking sticker on albums to let us know this because not getting one feels like an actual scam.

Also pretty much everything is digitally mastered anyway so if anyone judges you ask them if they own ANY analog albums

[–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Wasn't there even an "all analog" label in the US that claimed to use a fully analog pipeline in their process. People were saying it sounds so much better than the digital garbage we have, until somebody found out they were secretly using digital sources in their process and now the company got sued.

For all the recording nerds out there I highly recommend the book "Perfecting Sound Forever" by Greg Milner, which offers really good insights from both sides of the analog/digital debacle.

[–] RaccoonBall@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, Mobile Fidelity

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/mobile-fidelity-scandal

[–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Yeah. And even when I'm deeply in the all digital FLAC camp over here, I truly understand the frustration people had with digital audio. The biggest reason for that was the radio wars of the 90's, where every station wanted to be louder than the others to get better reviews and more listeners. And this pushed the studios to use all the headroom and compress their productions so even the CDs were already as loud as possible. This trend took over a decade, and kind of made music lovers think that vinyl sounds better than any digital audio. The early D/A converters were also kind of bad, so the early sound of a CD was not as good as vinyl was.

Nowadays we have the streaming services already normalizing all the tracks, so the mastering doesn't have to be loud anymore. Actually even these 90's and early 2000's masters sound really bad when you normalize the audio. And whatever sound card you have in your phone or computer has a pretty good D/A converter, so today digital definitely can and will sound better than the vinyl. Of course vinyl has better aesthetics with the beautiful cover art, so it is nice to own if you have space.

Edit: for analog, reel-to-reel tape sounds absolutely amazing. Too bad it's really hard to source any albums in this format.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 40 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I like putting a record on for more intangible benefits. It's a bit of a ritual to set everything up just right and get a nice sound out of it. Being so deliberate makes it something of an event where you're saying "I am going to spend the evening listening to music".

[–] FrostyTheDoo@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

Yep and I like to read the lyrics and any additional content or art that comes with the album while I listen to it. I also like that it forces me to not skip any songs, as when I stream stuff I tend to skip even some good songs in order to get to my favorites faster. The sound quality isn't really the point for me with vinyl, it's more about immersing myself with the album and enjoying it like a movie.

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[–] Slovene@feddit.nl 37 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I consume my music exclussively through wax cylinders.

[–] nifty@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Purist

[–] zephr_c@lemm.ee 37 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Most musical instruments are analog. Digitizing them is inherently lossy. I mean, it doesn't matter, you can get both digital and analog recordings that are orders of magnitude more accurate than human hearing, but claiming that analog is more inherently lossy than digital is just factually incorrect, unless the music is produced purely digitally. Including no human voices, because those are analog.

[–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 50 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Analog is inherently lossy due to the materials and playback method. Vinyl records sound different when they are dusty.

Digital is inherently lossless because the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem guarantees that, given a sufficiently high sample rate, all information from the original signal is preserved.

[–] zephr_c@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Your speakers are analog. They sound different when they are dusty. Your ears are analog. Things sound different when you have dirty ears. Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem only applies when there are no frequencies outside of the sample range, which doesn't happen in real life. None of this matters, because like I said it's trivial to have orders of magnitude more accuracy than you need. Digital is just way cheaper to copy accurately, so that's why it has become dominant, and that's fine, but the idea that it's inherently more representative of reality is just gibberish.

[–] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 11 points 4 months ago (14 children)

It is inherently more representative of reality. Measurably so. Vinyl doesn't and cannot have the same dynamic range as digital.

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[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 months ago

Vinyl sounds different per use, since it wears out.

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[–] koper@feddit.nl 42 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Digitizing is only lossy once*. Analog is lossy every time you copy it and degrades over time.

*Assuming you use a lossless digital format

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

Not just any time it's copied or generally over time, but each playback can degrade the quality. Record pins erode the channels, magnetic heads affect the strength of the magnetic field they read.

Reads, copies, and time don't (necessarily) degrade digital media, even with lossy compression (time can, but any time it's copied, it resets the clock to as good as the media can give; analog doesn't get that reset). Lossy compression only degrades it on conversion and there's a bunch of control over the shape of that degradation (with the intent of it not being detectable to our ears, though it obviously also depends on the bandwidth available).

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[–] magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You can sit here and have an argument about Nyquist-Shannon, but it isn't relevant for lots of music made in the past 40 years since it was made or recorded digitally.

If your work was made with a DAW there's no point to analog.

I've got a record from a smaller artist somewhere that I swear has fucking mp3 compression in it, because they don't know how to export their shit like an adult.

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[–] chamomile@furry.engineer 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

@zephr_c @nifty The character in the drawing is Hatsune Miku, so this is alluding to vocaloid music which could be produced purely digitally as you say.

Completely agreed otherwise, though.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Nearly all music is recorded digitally, anyway, and has been for a while.

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[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

But there's a difference between converting a JPEG to a PNG and re-compressing a JPEG as another JPEG.

Relevant

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[–] SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

Pristine? I bass boost the shit out of everything.

We only accept low frequencies in this household 🗿

[–] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 months ago

Hearing discernible sounds < boxing with lungs wrapped around one's fists.

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[–] tunasyne@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 4 months ago

miku miku beeeeaaaam

[+] Soundhole@lemm.ee 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] JudahBenHur@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are a good few digital drawing applications that have paper backgrounds and very convincing crayon/marker/pen etc tools.. I draw my d&d character sketches with Fresh Paint on a surface pro with the stylus and everyone thinks they're colored pencil drawings

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[–] Donkter@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Just so long as you acknowledge the fact that 99% of digital audio you listen to is not meticulously optimized the point that there's a discernable difference between it and analog sound.

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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Dont tell them, but I mixed in protools before outputting to a conversion box to get it on the vinyl

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[–] atocci@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

I just like owning the spirally squiggly music line. Hehehe it spins and sound comes out

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

CD sales are also going up...

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[–] constableunstable@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

Pedant here 👋 "vinyl is the plural of vinyl." I'll see myself out.