this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.

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Russians are employing this dastardly new technology called "mines" which no army on earth has encountered before, least of all those of the NATO members like France, Germany and the UK.

lonk

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[–] Lester_Peterson@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

If I'm remembering right that commentor went on to give a very optimistic prognosis for the counteroffensive. Arguing that because the first line of Russian defences near Robotyne had breached: Tokmak will be captured imminently, putting the entire Russian logistical network under threat and severing the land bridge to Crimea, which will then lead to the total collapse of Russian military power in southern Ukraine. It's a nice story but one completely divorced from the actual reality of the counteroffensive.

[–] TerminalEncounter@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

omg I was about to say this was a friendly fire dunk post because I read what they said and assumed they were posting with regular irony instead of sincerity lol. I've said essentially the exact same thing but sarcastically, "vastly superior training" -> assume constant air superiority and no mines against an enemy without productive capacity because you already leveled their country (see air superiority)

[–] christiansocialist@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

On the one hand, having these guys (le redditors and le lemmylords) in charge of the US military would be funny, because they would just order soldiers into the meat grinder ("don't worry, our superior Xbox controllers will be more than enough against those 'mines' and 'missiles'"), but on the other hand, they're stupid enough to do something really life-threatening to the planet (like casually using nukes).

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[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (7 children)

The 300 Spartans were also better trained. Still got merxied by Xerxes.

[–] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

The longevity of this propaganda is truly astonishing, and it's not surprising that a group of people as fucked as the Spartans are such a well-known reference point of supposed heroism in the West's increasingly fascistic culture.

There is no actual historical evidence that the Spartans were militarily superior to anyone else. They were militarily insignificant by the time the actual myth about them had emerged after the war against Persia through their propaganda. For instance their military capacities would later be laughable compared to the Macedonians, let alone the Romans. But the time of the Roman invasion of Greece they became little more than a tourist attraction. As someone else here has noted, they would soon be out-classed by Thebes and their notable general Epaminondas. The Thebans were also notable during this period for their elite warriors made up 150 pairs of lovers: The Sacred Band. The Thebans would later be outclassed by the Macedonians.

Beyond not being better fighters - which doesn't matter on the individual level really because what actually matters isn't how fancy you can swing a sword but things like discipline, organization, morale, stamina, courage, etc., training, etc (another reason why the idea that GoT is realistic is laughable to say the least) - Sparta didn't show any real tradition of tactical or strategic brilliance.

Actually, Thermopylae was a disproof of the Spartan strategy that they should try oppose the Persians on land and then hold the Isthmus. But the Spartans then tried to insist that they should try that AGAIN, opposing them similarly along the Pelopponese. The Athenians knew that this was wrong, and that they could far better face them at sea and by retreating from the mainland. The Athenians actually had to trick the Spartans into following their plan, hence the battle at Salamis.

Honestly the Spartans contributed little if anything to human culture.

Also reminder that the the Spartan elite would annually declare war on their own helots every autumn, giving them the right to ritually murder them at whim, and this was probably a right of passage for the young men.

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[–] Egon@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The only things Spartans were trained better at was catching and killing slaves. Their prowess is ahistoric propaganda.
...

Wait that actually makes them a very good comparison to NATO.

[–] ProxyTheAwesome@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Pretty weird how 300 portrays Persia as a slaver tyranny and the Spartans as live free or die hard chads, but in reality Spartans fought with helots (slave conscripts) and Persia had much fewer slaves in comparison. The east must always be evil, project all our western sins on the east.

Listen to this quote on this period of Iranian history:

On the whole, in the Achaemenid empire, there was only small number of slaves in relation to the number of free persons and slave labor was in no position to supplant free labor. The basis of agriculture was the labor of free farmers and tenants and in handicrafts the labor of free artisans, whose occupation was usually inherited within the family, likewise predominated. In these countries of the empire, slavery had already undergone important changes by the time of the emergence of the Persian state. Debt slavery was no longer common. The practice of pledging one’s person for debt, not to mention self-sale, had totally disappeared by the Persian period. In the case of nonpayment of a debt by the appointed deadline, the creditor could turn the children of the debtor into slaves. A creditor could arrest an insolvent debtor and confine him to debtor’s prison. However, the creditor could not sell a debtor into slavery to a third party. Usually the debtor paid off the loan by free work for the creditor, thereby retaining his freedom.

So they had slaves, as did many empires of the time, but relatively few and mostly debtors working off debt to their creditor directly and not a massive system of war slaves like Sparta had.

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[–] PZK@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (4 children)

"While you studied western tactics and equipment, I studied the mine." putin-wink

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[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Just crawl on your belly over the mines and they'll be added to your inventory

[–] WhatDoYouMeanPodcast@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No federation, but aren't mines a war crime because they outlast the war and hurt civilians?

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westoids can't into material conditions even during war

KEK

[–] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

One thing that I think doesn't get discussed that much is that military aid from NATO allies is great and all but providing tanks to Ukraine (for example) on the face of it, sounds pretty swell but unless troops are trained to operate that particular tank then they will be unable to be efficient and coordinated on the battlefield.

This varies depending on what is being provided. Obviously, for a gun, there's less of a learning curve than a missile battery or a helicopter which is of a significantly different design to what the Ukrainian military is experienced in operating in the theatre of war.

But there's a narrative that has developed in the mainstream audience in the west that you just plop down some additional tanks or what have you and it'll just *work*. But this is war, not some strategy game, and the average person doesn't seem to have any grasp of the realities on the ground.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

But when I play HOI IV I can just click the button and upgrade the equipment? I think it's you that doesn't get how works

[–] envis10n@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What's a mine? Like a mineshaft?

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Landmine. Explosive thingy you step on that then kills or cripples you. Something very common that has been around for ages. Several nations have issues with mines left behind after wars long gone by. As a result several armies have experience with handling warfare in heavily mined areas.

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