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Still Unable to Post Bond, Trump Has Most Crazed Meltdown Yet
(newrepublic.com)
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this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2024
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From my understanding, it essentially ends up with bidding for assets to get to the amount needed. Whatever the resulting high bid ends up, is the amount for that asset. So if something is valued at $500M but sells for only $200M, it only counts as $200M toward the judgment. Basically, estimated value means nothing, only what someone actually pays for it.
So actual market value.
So... What happens when it turns out he's underwater on all his properties, and they sell for less than he owes on them?
Straight to jail? Please?
He defaults on the loans. If he owns a building, has a $500 M loan on it, and it gets sold via this process, he gets no money, unless the sale goes over what he owes for the judgement. But the loan is still in place and he still owes the $500 M.
Not necessarily, but more of what someone is willing to pay at that specific moment. A lot can factor in. This being highly publicized, and with the notoriety of Trump and its assets, it can go in any unexpected direction.
That’s… market value
Kind of less, he's paying taxes on the sale too, because he's still selling it even tho he doesnt get to keep the money.
And when selling half a billion dollars of real estate, you're going to pay a lot of taxes even in America.
So the 200 million goes to the judgement, but he's paying 20-40% percent in state/federal/local taxes. And it's all gonna happen in the same calendar year while a shit ton of accountants are watching his every move.
He's going to end up having to sell a lot more than the judgement to pay his tax bill a year from now.
And that's not even getting into his loans.
Value a building at 100 million when it's worth 50
Borrow 70 million on property.
Sells for 40 and the bank needs 30 still.
There's no way out, even if the bank forgives the remaining 30, that still counts as taxable income for trump, compounding the first issue. And in that scenario, $0 is going to judgement and trump still loses the property and they move on to seizing the next on the list. He gets zero gain from the sale, but it's still drives up taxable income for him personally
trump could conceivably have a billion dollar gross income in 2024, and be completely broke with hundreds of millions due in tax.
Which is just insane.
I'll believe it when I see it.
And yet, it is just. He has been screwing people over for decades to amass what he has, and it's time he paid for his criminal (tax/loan/whatever fraud).
That’s not quite right.
If you buy something for 300m, with 200m in loans, and sell it for 250m, you pay the loan back first, and have 50m in losses. Your taxes go down.
He only pays tax on gains.
Remember the whole case is him inflating property value to get loans. Between the fire sale, and the bad loans, it’s very likely he has little to no equity. He could sell all he has and not have any money to pay the $500m (plus interest.) Which also means little to no tax burden.
Right...
If he sells for less then he has a loan on, he still owes the money, and without the property as collateral, the lender is going to collect.
If they forgive the debt, that counts as earnings and is taxed.
So it would either force more sales to pay remaining loans, or it's forgiven and taxable income goes up
But if he bought it for cheap, and got a loan on the property after the fact, or realistically, he held them for long enough then leveraged their new worth for other things, and hasn't paid any gains on the properties
He was on trial for taking loans on fake gains.
My schadenfreude is ramping up. I don't see him wiggling out.
Its possible at a firesale value it could end up being a capital loss. There wouldn't be any taxes then.
But you'd need a legit appraisal to even know if it's a loss, his appraisals are worthless
You don't need any appraisal. You only need to know the purchase price and the selling price. The difference between them is the gain or loss.
Oh, you're right. Whoops.
By that logic no one has ever paid taxes selling a used car...
They haven't. The buyer only pay sales tax, and the seller pays no tax at all. Except maybe crazy situations where it's a collectible antique that's worth way more now than when you bought it.
There is absolutely no way in the universe that little weasel didn't ask Elon for money over breakfast. No conceivable way.
Well pay taxes if you sell at a profit. Hard to say if the value of his assets increased.
No, it's still taxes.
If I buy a 50,000 car and sell it for 25000 2 years later, I'm still paying taxes.
How do you not know that?
You need to read more about how capital gain taxes work.
In your car example there would be a capital loss, so no taxes would be owed.
If you sold it for 55000, then there would be a capital gain and you would owe tax on the 5000 profit.
Here is an article that explains it relative to your example:
https://www.dmv.org/articles/income-tax-implications-of-selling-a-used-car/
The tax you pay is one the net gain, which is the amount realized less the base of the good (i.e., what you paid to acquire). I'm not a tax expert, and real estate can get really fucky with this stuff, but that's my understanding of the fundamental rules for taxation.
...
I'm not sure how to explain this any simpler.
My apologies, but if I tried again I'd just be repeating what I've just said.
Your explanation is wrong.
Here is an explanation of capital gains directly from the IRS:
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409
The confusion is you think it's a "gain" only if sold for more than you paid, which isn't true.
And having a loan doesn't negate gains. It's two separate things. Which is why this situation for trump is so crazy and his taxable income can balloon so much despite trump not getting any money.
I don't think explaining more would help, but since you bothered to provide a link. I took the time to show you where you were confused.
It seems the confusion is that you think whatever the total amount the item sells for is a “gain.” A gain is the profit - the difference between what you sell the asset for and your cost basis in the asset.
In your car example, the cost basis is 50000. If you then sell it for 10000, you then have a capital loss of 40000. You don’t pay taxes on the 10000 because it is not earned income and it is not a gain - it’s part of your original capital. And you obviously don’t pay taxes on the 40k loss. And since it is a car, you can’t even deduct the loss.
If you sell the car for 55000, then you have a gain of 5000 (the difference between your cost basis of 50000 and what you sold it for). You are taxed on the capital gain of 5000, not on the entire 55000.
Considering I do that yearly you don't pay taxes on 25,000 but only on profit. You will write off a percentage of a capitalized item like that per year. The only way you would pay taxes above what you have expenses is if somehow that 50,000 dollar car sells for more then 50,000. That is likely not happening.
On the other side, what if some shady entity comes in and bids $500 million for something valued at $1 million so that Trump doesn't have to sell all his shit, but then the shady entity will have Trump in their pocket as well?
So this other side you speak of is different from how it currently is? Trump sold many properties to Russian nationals at inflated prices. That was why he's already in their pockets. Nothing will change, he's already in so many people's pockets.
If that were the case, Trump would be able find someone he could use the asset as collateral for bond instead. Just like Chubb's deal for the other judgment.
"Ten million for 72 hours with Melania, Ivanka, Tiffany, and Katie Britt: my associates will make videos—in case they're needed."
Honestly in a world of AI video generators, there’s no better time to be blackmailed by video.
Yup, and if the conservatives haven't voluntarily bailed him out yet they're probably not going to be charitable in valuing his broke ass brand.
None of the rich ones want to pony up that much for nothing and the poor ones have already spent what they had on his other legal costs and "merch".
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Trump says Mar-a-lago is worth billions so it's worth billions, right? I mean that's how it's worked for him up until now.
Except when he needs it to be worthless, then it becomes instantly worthless. He has magic Schrodinger buildings which are both the most valuable in the world and worthless at the same time. Or as we in the real world like to call it: fraud
Trump being forced to sell off his properties for what people will pay for them in order to pay off the fine for fraudulently overvaluing those same properties is just so fucking delicious.