390
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
390 points (92.0% liked)
News
22890 readers
3694 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Really sounds like we just found some old ass rule on the books and we're using it to discriminate against trans people specifically.
I mean, it makes sense to me. Whether you are trans or not, I feel like people voting for you should be aware if you have changed your name so they can do some googling and make sure you didn't get into any controversy or shenanigans before you changed your name.
Sure they are specifically using this law to target this person because they disagree with their way of life, but it's an old law and was passed for reasons before trans issues were even prevalent so the law itself isn't transphobic.
Using your logic, explain the exception for marriage.
Because an exception to that was taken into account long before now, and trans people were not.
But just because the people that drafted this law didn't write out an exception for deadnames doesn't mean it's inherently transphobic. This was hardly a major topic in the public discourse when these laws were made.
Again, a law that requires voters have transparency is a good thing overall. It needs updated, yes, but the problem here is how it's being used as a tool to abuse. The law is to prevent fraud, but no fraud is being committed.
The dead name requirement isn't the issue. There is no way to provide that info, the requirement to provide tha info isn't documented, and they are attempting to disqualify her over it. The actual fuck?
Exactly, if this was a genuine mistake they’d present opportunities to rectify it and try to ensure it doesn’t happen in the future. The law probably wasn’t meant specifically to hurt trans people but the implementation clearly is.
That didn't actually answer my question.
The poster says that this law makes sense because voters need to be able to research their candidates. The exception for marriage contradicts that logic - do we not need to research married people? I want to see how they square that circle is all.
me on my way to do crimes before getting married so I dont have to declare my name change when running for congress or whatever
Exactly. Thank you. People change their name when they get married all the time. Are we to believe someone would be barred from the ballot if they get married between the petition and the ballot?
Arent marriage certificates public, but not sure if they show your original name or just new one
All name changes are. Judges do them so they fall under the public record. I’m sure you can get yours sealed if you can prove that you’re in danger, but without a restraining order it’s highly unlikely
You need to legally change your name, so that should be public as well.
Not in every state. California has a "confidential" marriage license that isn't public. We chose that one to stay off mailing lists.
Because an exception for that was taken into account long before now, and trans people were not.
But just because the people that drafted this law didn't write out an exception for deadnames doesn't mean it's inherently transphobic. This was hardly a major topic in the public discourse when these laws were made.
Again, a law that requires voters have transparency is a good thing overall. It needs updated, yes, but the problem here is how it's being used as a tool to abuse. The law is to prevent fraud, but no fraud is being committed.
I think where the communication is failing here is partly because intent vs effect. Were the people intending to hurt trans people when the law was written? It’s unlikely. Did it? That’s arguable for basically any time before 2015ish, it did create a dangerous and uncomfortable barrier between trans people and serving in the state legislature but it was by no means the biggest until recently. The most influence we had on politics in the 80s was dying, rioting, and when politicians became regular johns. But today’s implementation? They’ve burned every benefit of the doubt and all that remains is that there’s a slim chance some of these people are only enforcing this rule so strictly because she’s a democrat.
For public office I'm not entirely sure there should be an exception. I'm not sure why there is, other than people might say it's unfair to women who are the most likely to have had a name change and it's an extra burden than most men won't need to do.
If a man changed his name for marriage I would like to be aware before voting as well.
So as not to be accused of discriminating against women, who most frequently change name due to marriage.
But that doesn't fulfill the stated reasoning i.e. the law makes sense because voters need to be able to research candidates. Do married women not have lives before marriage? Of course they do, but the law seems to treat their premarital life as completely separate.
Here's what I think: the law may not have been intended to exclude trans folk, but it's definitely sexist, and the intersection of transphobia and sexism can't be ignored.
The law doesn't make sense either, because name changes are public record anyway.
Well, when voters see that her husband has the same last name, it becomes pretty obvious she changed her name at marriage.
The law was passed in 1995, before anyone knew what a deadname was. And I do not see it as sexist, especially when the only reason women change names more than men is specifically excluded.
Just because it’s public record (and even then sometimes you can get records sealed) does not mean the information is easily accessible.
The discussion around deadnaming and necessary or legal record keeping is kind of ongoing, but that's not what's happening here.
The point of rules like this is to dissuade deceptive name changes but there's no reason to view this particular case as deceptive. That's why it's going up for review and not disqualifying them immediately. Ideally, Congress would recognize this case doesn't fit the spirit of that rule and both allow them to campaign while simultaneously setting a precedent or rewriting the rule to exclude deadnames.
As to whether that'll actually happen, and how fair and impartial the review will be, I think we can all guess it won't be.
It's an understandable rule, but this is dishonest enforcement of it.
Yuo didn't actually explain why marriage should be an exception, though. Why is it understandable? People do marry to get into certain families or escape baggage. It's less common today but it happens.
But the original law still exempts name change by marriage . To me it feels like name changes not on official public record should be the target, as in a deliberate pseudonym. Still, what fits under that umbrella? Your twitter handle, if it isn't your legal name would fit, but no one included that since the law was written.
I'm not sure that's their logic in this case. Has this been used to disqualify cisgender candidates? Is there precedent for this in the last decade?
I wouldn't think so, especially with how common it is for people of Anglo culture to use a "non-official" name on official documents (in my experience, which is something I never saw with clients of other cultures).
The crux of your argument about "make sure you didn't get into any controversy" is baked into the name change process...
https://uclawreview.org/2021/10/01/name-changes-do-we-need-judicial-discretion/
Ohio in particular is one such a state that requires you to publish the name change in the newspaper
https://www.ohiolegalhelp.org/topic/name-change
I had to go through this in NY, it sounds like roughly the same process. It's the biggest pain in the ass and ended up costing around $600 or so?
That was almost a decade and like six apartments ago, and I still get spam sent to me under my dead name in the mail
Because so many read and have free access to search old legal notices in newspapers.
If you want to argue name changes are public, they should be placed in a publicly searchable database.
You mean like this?
That doesn’t go back very far, and the name changes get very lost on all the public bids, foreclosures, and what not.
It is filterable.
And it only goes back 1 month.
You ever heard of a library?
Yes, because voters should have to go a library and pour over old newspapers just to know who they are voting for.
The old ass rule has a legitimate purpose, but this isn't it.
Ding ding ding!
The one it originally happened to has a father who is a conservative politician in the state and likely wanted to avoid the hit to his own numbers from people knowing about his child.
When people pointed out it wasn't enforced, someone was going to use it for everyone else too
I'm going with Hanlon's Razor on this one and assuming this is just a really stupid bureaucratic failure where a form doesn't have a box for required info that it doesn't tell you is required. Curious if there are similar examples for name changes by cis people, which I wouldn't expect to be newsworthy. Regardless it needs to be fixed.
No, the person you replied to hit the nail on the head.
Believe me, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, and I 100% think this is wrong.
My take here is that filling out a government form and having it be rejected because you didn't put required information that isn't stated as required into a box that the form doesn't have and getting denied/made to redo it is an extremely plausible scenario. In the case of a cis person being denied this way, it's a mundane bit of bureaucratic nonsense that nobody would blink an eye at.
The article states:
The fact that this law has been identified as a real problem for trans people and that there is a quote in the article from the (Republican) governor saying "this is bad, we should fix it" strikes me as acknowledgement that this dumb rule is disproportionately affecting trans people and should be fixed.
We have a depressing number of real examples of malicious use of the law against trans people, so all I'm saying is that this one doesn't seem worth getting fired up about unless there is evidence of actual malicious intent here.
It's never been used before.
Hanlon's razor is stupid. What makes you think it's a good rule?