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nuanceposting (lemmy.cafe)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by spujb@lemmy.cafe to c/memes@lemmy.world

Important clarification/FAQI am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!

I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

Very good comments that express key points:

Edit: This post has now been removed and restored twice. I want to encourage you all:

Be decent to one another

I think this post is a valuable thing given the current state of the Fediverse, please don't fuck it up for us by being toxic in the comments.

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[-] hypnicjerk@lemmy.world 92 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

there is only one truth, and it is that there is no gender war, only misdirection from class warfare that has monetized and monopolized even our interpersonal, romantic, and sexual connection.

when people don't have problems, you can't sell them solutions.

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 74 points 5 months ago

The shackles of sexism, racism, and homophobia do not simply fall off when you accept class consciousness. These are still fights for awareness which must continue to be fought. Otherwise, we risk allowing toxic mentalities into our midst, which will only serve to alienate and expel our minority brethren.

The cages built by the state which cordon us off from one another exist in the mind, but they are very real in impact. We must fight by destroying the cages in each of our thoughts, and pass our knowledge to others so they can do the same. That is the only means to stand as one.

Let's also not forget that there are very real shackles placed on many groups - many real cages - which we must work to destroy as well.

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Those who do not move do not notice their chains.

Noticing your chains and beginning to rattle them, and encouraging your peers to do the same, is the first step to releasing yourself from them, but it is not the only step.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 37 points 5 months ago

Here's Orwell in "Homage to Catalonia":

"There were perhaps a thousand men at the barracks, and a score or so of women, apart from the militiamen's wives who did the cooking. There were still women serving in the militias, though not very many. In the early battles they had fought side by side with the men as a matter of course. It is a thing that seems natural in time of revolution. Ideas were changing ready, however. The militiamen had to be kept out of the riding-school while the women were drilling there because they laughed at the women and put them off. A few months earlier no one would have seen anything comic in a woman handling a gun."

This was in an overwhelmingly leftist camp. Orwell sees glimpses of an anarchist collective based on mutual aid popping up. Yet, sexisim clearly persisted after a period where it had been pushed aside.

These issues don't go away just because people become class conscious.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 19 points 5 months ago

Even if we take gender-based issues as very real (which is often not quite true since we target a demographic of literally half the planet, which is never representative), they come second to the class warfare.

A poor male worker holds way less power than a rich businesswoman.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 12 points 5 months ago
[-] pmk@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 5 months ago

If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail.

[-] Allero@lemmy.today 17 points 5 months ago
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[-] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.ca 77 points 5 months ago

Social media doesn't often reward kindness, but that's what is needed. Show kindness to young men, when you can. They need better guidance.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 28 points 5 months ago

So much this. ❤️ But it’s tough.

I am making this post coming out of a comment section where women expressing their most personal and horrific experiences are getting majority downvotes, while men are yapping on and on about “the problem with feminism these days” over them and getting no shortage of likes. It’s frankly disturbing to witness.

I am trying to be kind with this (and all) posts because I recognize it is what is needed. But I also fully understand the plight of other women who get frustrated or even lash out.

Take a deep breath. Listen to one another. Be kind.

[-] PriorityMotif@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago

Many people conflate kindness with weakness, however, in reality it is the opposite. It is easier to tear someone down, than to build something. The tendency to tear other people down comes from a need to feel higher in the social pecking order which they cannot attain with their lack of ability.

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[-] MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 50 points 5 months ago

It’s true that nuance does indeed often get lost in online debates, so I appreciate you for making this post.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 27 points 5 months ago

thanks! i hope this format can catch on im kind of proud of it lol

[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 months ago

keep doing it and it probably will to be honest.

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[-] Kedly@lemm.ee 42 points 5 months ago
[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 24 points 5 months ago

no u ❤️

[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 5 months ago

we need a nuance posting rule on the internet i think.

For every sensational shitpost you must provide at least one nuance.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 26 points 5 months ago

honestly i would smash the subscribe button so hard on a c/nuanceposting community. verbose and carefully worded memes are my absolute jam. 😎🙂‍↕️

[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 5 months ago

eudaimonia on dbzer0 has what is essentially the spiritual precedent to that community. You'd probably like it, it's not super busy or anything right now, but we could always use more users over there.

No memey shit over there though, it's pretty explicitly focused on the underlying aspects of this kind of stuff.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 30 points 5 months ago
[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 25 points 5 months ago

You are all arguing about bears, but I am over here day dreaming

NSFW

[-] Sturgist@lemmy.ca 16 points 5 months ago

Uhhhhhhh.....what a horrible day to be literate

[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 9 points 5 months ago

Nothing like some vintage copy pasta to sear your brain

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[-] starelfsc2@sh.itjust.works 22 points 5 months ago

Hopefully people see this and stop posting ragebait 🙏

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

Those young men should also choose the bear. If we explained that to them, and why, maybe the next generation wouldn't need to.

[-] PugJesus@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

I mean, I'm a man getting to the point where I'm entering the "No longer young" decade, but I'd take the bear. People are less predictable than bears. I don't want to be isolated from civilization with ANY stranger.

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[-] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 months ago

I think you're misunderstanding the point of the meme then

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

Not really. It's saying to soften the language. I disagree. I say explain the language and why that level of anger is justified. The boys will quickly realize and be told that it's not about them. They'll likely also be just as mad at the s*** that goes on.

Kids are smart. If you tell them that women would pick a bear because a small percentage of men rape a large percentage of women, they'll get that.

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[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What? Men are going to adopt shitty beliefs and exercise their privilege no matter what and nothing can be done about it. /s

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

The gamification of social media means any attempt to draw a bright line of social conduct will just end in people deploying that rule in the most cynical context.

"Believe all women" means we're going to slap generic women's faces in our Avis and lie out our asses.

"Let people enjoy things" means reframing the most deplorable and nakedly hostile conduct as some kind of secret fetish you have to support.

"Protect Kids" means posting baby pictures under every comment and saying "This is who you're talking to".

"Act like an adult" means getting CP in your DMs.

When its all a fucking game and you score points by causing other people mental anguish, the only thing any sane healthy person can do is log off, touch grass, and get as far away from the hellscape that is social media as possible.

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[-] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

OK, seriously, I thought I've spent enough free time on Lemmy telling you to watch Barbie here for some of you here to, you know, actually watch Barbie.

So let me be clear: it is ultimately the Barbies' complete disregard for the Kens' feelings that led to the Kens being poisoned by the idea of the Patriarchy and all the subsequent mess in Barbieland, so way ahead of you on 2, to reiterate, what the Kens did was wrong, but you have got to take a nuanced approach to these things.

Also, on 1, all I said was that unlike the meme I feel that bears are terrifying, and then some weirdo came out of the woodwork and got really angry and start talking over me and calling me a dumbass and I was making it all about me somehow. The irony was so palpable I was at a loss for words.

[-] FatTony@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago

Could someone explain number 2 to me? A lot of big words, and I have trouble to understand what it's trying to say.

[-] bigschnitz@lemmy.world 41 points 5 months ago

It's claiming that pushing men out of civilized communities, spaces and conversations ultimately leads to them embracing more accepting alt-right ideologies and movements.

[-] FatTony@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago
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[-] sparkle@lemm.ee 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Young men are much more likely to be non-conforming to sexist cultural/gender norms and stereotypes, which often leads to them being ostracized more by general society and makes it easier for grifters (like manosphere influencers) to take ahold of them and radicalize them with alt-right and/or extremely misogynistic beliefs.

There are plenty of amazing feminist role models, but the right's form of propoganda is so much more enticing because it tells you that everyone else is the problem and you're superior to others, rather than ask you to give a shot at understanding reality like leftist influences do. That goes with anything on the right, fascists are a lot more motivating and good at gaining/rallying radical supporters because it's so much easier to get people on your side if you're allowed to lie about everything. So naturally, impressionable – and extremely vulnerable and emotionally volatile – young men gravitate towards the extreme negative influences due to how our society and education is poorly set up to prevent that.

And in this case how sexism and toxic masculinity is deeply ingrained into our society that so many of these young men are made to feel like they're "not real men" by those around them, it really pushes them towards this even more. Rather than reject the idea of a "real man" or a "real woman", they embrace them even more and convince themselves that they are the realest men, and OTHERS are pathetic.

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[-] neo@feddit.de 11 points 5 months ago

I'm not gonna lie, the grammar of that first sentence is quite confusing to simpleton like me.

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[-] boatsnhos931@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago
[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 5 months ago

POST RESTORED THABK YOU MODS

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this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
547 points (90.0% liked)

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