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When a person of color, especially if they're black like me, affirms their support for causes such as queer liberation, feminism, animal rights, or socialism, I immediately feel that I can believe, with minimal doubt, that they're truly convicted and principled in what they're advocating for.

However, when a white person claims to support leftism, until my skepticism is proven wrong, I immediately assume they're a dishonest and performative libshit. I then proceed to interact with them with hefty amounts of caution. If my assumptions are proven true, I'm never shocked.

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[-] kristina@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

ngl i feel very similar about cis men. is this intersectionality? surprised-pika-messed-up

[-] AutomatedPossum@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago

Honestly wouldn't exclude trans men from that. I see that kind of verbage that specifically singles out cis men a lot in trans, lesbian and feminist spaces, i've talked and thought like that in the past as well and i've found that practically all transmascs that i know personally or that i at least regularly interact with online find it extremely othering and belittling when women pretend that trans dudes are somehow the better men, and it is a gender essentialist notion at its core. I mean, they openly call it transphobic, i'm just being diplomatic here.

Yes, transmascs have lived experience with misogyny in almost all cases, they can fall back on that experience while they settle into living in a masculine gender role fulltime, but being the better men everybody believes them to be by default takes work on their part. Many put in that work, but it's a pain in the ass. It isn't realistic to believe they will automatically keep in mind what it's like growing up as somebody who's viewed as a girl in a patriarchal society. And when i hear from the shit early-transition or poorly passing transmascs have to put up with, how often their masculinity is called into doubt, how hard they have to prove themselves, i absolutely find they do go through the exact kind of shit that produces fragile masculinity, toxic masculinity, or just tacit support of misogynist power structures in cis men. There's an entire propaganda apparatus out there specifically targetting men that struggle to look like gigachad-hd

And unfortunately, there's transmascs out there that are just awful, shitty people. Trans men are men. Criticizing men should always include them, and they need to do self crit like every other dude.

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[-] allthetimesivedied@hexbear.net 20 points 7 months ago

I dead ass peace’d out from activism because of this shit.

For some reason, a lot of people in the “activist community” are incredibly snotty and mean, too.

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 7 months ago

Oh, I guess I'm not the only one who has experienced that. Way too many people who think that being an "activist" makes them better than other people and therefore they can walk all over everyone else. In my experience it's just a small but very vocal group, not the majority though, if possible, maybe try interacting with different groups and orgs? My local Marxists are all useful idiots toeing the American government line on everything, but our local anarchists are ok when it comes to protesting and stuff, so I usually go with them, even if we disagree politically.

[-] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 7 months ago

Don't worry it's a good thing lol means you've been paying attention to how they will always choose their whiteness over anything else, unless proven otherwise.

In any case I feel more comfortable around other Black people in general 🤷🏿‍♂️

[-] ChairmanSpongebob@hexbear.net 18 points 7 months ago

I am white (disclaimer)

because most white leftists/progressives, in my experience, have not killed the plantation overseer in their brain. colonialism is the mind-killer, it's the little-death. understanding it and learning to hate it, to see it seep into everything in society is the difference, I think, between the progressive that wants to strengthen the settler-colony by keeping it's racist systems intact and making small changes, and the leftist who seeks to destroy the settler-colony and uproot it

that's a hard thing to want to destroy something that benefited your ancestors and yourself to this very day- to want to end something that your told is your culture or your identity, maybe there's a bit of capitalist realism in there; you can't imagine anything else... but if there is evil in the world that would be it, the project of "whiteness".

in the last few years I've come to challenge that internally, I guess. Why would I want to self-identify with a project that I think should be destroyed? I have a hard time trusting other white people in organizing if they haven't also come to that conclusion, or are at least working towards it, doesn't matter if they are a ML or a succdem

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[-] Monk3brain3@hexbear.net 17 points 7 months ago

It's capitalism we're all sellouts. White people just have an easier time to be sellouts so you notice it more

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 17 points 7 months ago

pattern recognition probably

[-] darkmode@hexbear.net 17 points 7 months ago

Easy, don’t trust anyone unless they call themselves a communist explicitly. “Progressive” and “leftist” are perverted terms in (assuming your location) Amerika. Oh also if they use MSE u might be able to let your guard down too. Fact of the matter is that most ppl don’t really have a coherent ideology cuz why would they?

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[-] HighOnCopium@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

Whites can claim to be leftist or progressive or inclusive or whatever and then do nothing about dismantling the racist system that exists here (I mean why should they, considering that it benefits them the most).

Assume all whites are racist until proven otherwise.

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[-] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I had a big long thing on how POC Jim Clyburn DSA DNC loyalists are the worst and held back progress. But as. cracker I am afraid to critize POC here for many ignoring the warnings of the White Moderate so I'll just say I'm skeptical of everyone and and trust is earned.

[-] Mokey@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

I grew up in an area that was mostly black and hispanic.

I'm at the point where I hate other white people and I'm in a contradictory position of hating white people but also I definitely grew up white. I hate whiteness but not myself.

Like I don't expect to be trusted because I see it, I understand that reaction, I don't trust white people either but the alternative is being by yourself all the time which I don't think is good either and itself kind of white.

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[-] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

Nah, that's fair. Not all white leftists are grifters or liberals, but it's good practice to assume a baseline of distrust until proven otherwise. Source: I'm white.

[-] WitchHazel@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 7 months ago

I mean It makes tons of fucking sense lol

I don't feel offended that I have to be so explicit that I fight against all forms of oppression and especially racism

People of color generally have no margin for error with these things, because someone could say the exact same shit I do and then support Biden's border policy. I don't see myself as a "good white person" because I recognize that they don't really exist in our everyday lives. I defer my judgement to people with different perspectives because I know I will hurt people otherwise.

Maybe you wouldn't have as bad of an issue if every white person acted similarly, but for a lot of people I feel like those attitudes never go away, so it feels more like the preparation for the start of progress rather than an actual step forward.

I apologize if I'm overstepping or offering my opinion when it is undesired.

[-] Hello_Kitty_enjoyer@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago

uhh because you shouldn't trust crackers? doyyy

[-] DyingOfDeBordom@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

all i know is I love this discourse from the same crowd that is all "race essentialism in dungeons and dragons is fascist, you can be a good goblin, frieren is a fascist show because literal demons are shown as evil"

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[-] Hestia@hexbear.net 15 points 7 months ago

I work security in a casino. White people are the sketchiest MF's there. I ID check them 5x more often than people of color.

[-] henfredemars@infosec.pub 15 points 7 months ago

I don't trust what people say or what labels they apply. Many people don't understand what words mean, or worse they are intentionally deceitful. I instead watch their actions and form my own opinions.

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this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024
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chapotraphouse

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