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submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by WhyEssEff@hexbear.net to c/the_dunk_tank@hexbear.net
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[-] save_vs_death@hexbear.net 101 points 3 months ago

You know what's baffling about this take is that at least mask off nazis have a very easy consistent non mental gymnastics take on it: "yes, they burned trans literature and it was good that they did so." Fascinating, now face the wall. I don't know what kind of pretzeling this moronic take requires. In fact, not only did Magnus Hirschfield's institute research queerness and transness, they undertook the first gender confirmation surgery. The woman in question, Dora Richter, is presumed killed during the attack on the institute or in custody after it. All of this information is incredibly easy to verify.

[-] Emanuel@lemmy.eco.br 81 points 3 months ago

She's probably operating under the assumption that trans people were invented in 2016.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 56 points 3 months ago

I think the terf logic here is that it's slightly more socially acceptable to just erase trans people than to be outright on the side of nazis? Posy Parker doesn't seem to mind either way lol, but also the cultural awareness of queer people as holocaust victims still seems new and relatively small, so perhaps they see it as a defensible hill to die on.

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 65 points 3 months ago

I think JK Rowling is the type of transphobe that wants to pretend transness is new. Understanding that Nazis were burning books about trans people does more than put TERFs on the same side as nazis, it also means trans people have been here a lot longer than whatever it is she blames.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 49 points 3 months ago

Oh yeah, erasing of the history is something that all queer people are subject to, because that history tells us that we've always been here and are perfectly natural to the world, which transphobes especially just cannot have.

[-] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 55 points 3 months ago

she's reposted a thread someone very normal made about how Magnus was actually in cahoots with the nazis because he was such a eugenics fanboy, or something

[-] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 36 points 3 months ago

Was he? It doesn’t justify anything either way, but I just don’t know if I should mad about her pretending to care about eugenics or mad about her making such a vile false accusation.

[-] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago

it absolutely doesn't excuse the fucking nazis, jk & co are trying to link trans ideology with eugenics, unethical experiments, seething about the children, it's just that same line about how she felt like she would have been transed today

it's disgusting

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[-] CthulhusIntern@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago

Back then, there were unfortunately a lot of otherwise very smart people who were in favor of eugenics.

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[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 79 points 3 months ago

Super cool that we live in the timeline where advocating for an end to the genocide of the Palestinians is anti-semetic but denying the crimes of the Third Reich is just a reasonable opinion.

[-] DinosaurThussy@hexbear.net 66 points 3 months ago

The terf to nazi pipeline is real

[-] HelltakerHomosexual@hexbear.net 63 points 3 months ago

if you don't want to genocide every fucking Nazi bastard on this planet, you aren't a communist

[-] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 51 points 3 months ago

Pest removal doesn’t count as genocide imo, but otherwise agree and would encourage you to go further. :Starmer:

[-] HelltakerHomosexual@hexbear.net 44 points 3 months ago

this is true

Get organized, then watch your glorious progress as the steel union beats the shit out of the local fascists

[-] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 34 points 3 months ago

And here I was thinking letting the welders at them would be best, but steel workers do have that muscle…. :blush:

[-] HelltakerHomosexual@hexbear.net 32 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

but when it gets down to it, is there anything as hot as an anti-fascist?

[-] GinAndJuche@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

A welder turning a fascists face into that lost ark scene? Up to 400 F.

Fr tho, anyone who genuinely wants to bash the fash can make me overlook many things

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[-] WaterBowlSlime@lemmygrad.ml 63 points 3 months ago

How common is it for the Holocaust to be seen as a genocide against exclusively Jews? I feel like Zionist propaganda has done a lot to revise and mythologize the atrocity.

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 55 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yep, liberals conveniently forget that leftists, slavs and POC were exterminated by the Third Reich in just as great/or greater numbers for the delusion of "lebensraum" (it's not a competition, but what I mean is that it's basically forgotten and ignored by liberal's history)

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago

First they came for the communists

[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Rewriting What Was: Distorting Pastor Niemoller’s Words

Yet at the Holocaust museum and elsewhere, the word “Communist” has been dropped, replaced with “socialists,” as though Niemoller had written so, though he did not (for in 1945, even anti-communists recognized that communists were targets of fascism). This might seem like a quaint point in our post-Cold War time. Perhaps the change was made by those who fear the word might “confuse” those who equate Communism with fascism, Nazi Germany with the Soviet Union, thereby ignoring a truth, also widely accepted in 1945 and not by the left alone, the intimate connection between fascism and capitalism. Although “socialists” might seem to simply indicate a more commonly recognized left radicalism, its use removes the specificity of Niemoller’s original. Distortion, after all, distorts meaning.

The change in language contributes to the sense that social conflicts past and present are morality plays: good people on one side, bad people on the other, and never the twain shall meet. The air of self-satisfaction embedded in such simplifications reduces political questions then to an easily ignored morality, much like the Christian injunction to “love thy neighbor,” repeatedly uttered without context by those whose deeds condemn countless to hunger, illness and the ravages of war (unlike Martin Luther King’s same use of that phrase which had meaning for it was always and explicitly tied to context and content).

...

The pattern of developments noted above was familiar to Niemoller and others of his generation. The attacks on Communists, Social Democrats, unions, attacks on working-class institutions and communities, led each to be isolated. This was interwoven with attacks on populations (Jews, later Roma, Slavs, the disabled, gays and others) that were even more vulnerable. In the process, civil liberties were lost (including liberty of conscience) which finalized his fate and that of may others who spoke up too late.

...

But when “communists” are removed by those who otherwise quote Niemoller as he wrote because they are “unwanted” victims, then a sign is given of a partial solidarity that fails the test of solidarity altogether. Perhaps an analogy can be made when defenders of vulnerable populations ignore the plight of a vulnerable population closer to hand – such as those who are (or have been) in prison, for it means the support that is given is itself contingent upon impression and circumstance. Moreover, eschewing Communists as victims is part of the process of separating defense of liberties — freedom of speech, assembly, press — from active use of liberties to create more social justice, to make use of democracy to advance popular power, social justice, and freedom through equality. Niemoller never abandoned his rejection of anti-Communism, even when it quickly resurfaced in Germany during his lifetime.

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[-] Ocommie63@lemmygrad.ml 59 points 3 months ago

Cool, face the wall now please

[-] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 58 points 3 months ago

"fuck off" just doesn't feel strong enough.

[-] FunkyStuff@hexbear.net 53 points 3 months ago

That's when you gotta take it to the gui-trans

[-] Kuori@hexbear.net 31 points 3 months ago

that's because holocaust denial should be met with lethal violence

[-] autismdragon@hexbear.net 58 points 3 months ago

second-plane

Joanne Rowling has reached the holocaust denial phase of facism.

[-] Cummunism@hexbear.net 56 points 3 months ago
[-] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 32 points 3 months ago

Not one more word tonight

Between here and there

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[-] Aquilae@hexbear.net 47 points 3 months ago
[-] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 44 points 3 months ago
[-] citrussy_capybara@hexbear.net 46 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

it’s some terf’s actual human hair styled into a portrait of their favourite bigot author

[-] BodyBySisyphus@hexbear.net 43 points 3 months ago

wtf thanks, that explains the name but also what in the actual hell is wrong with these people

[-] Llituro@hexbear.net 42 points 3 months ago
[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 38 points 3 months ago

Hirschfield seems like he was a cool dude but it always bugs me that there are so many famous CISGENDER MEN in the history of trans people :/

[-] Azarova@hexbear.net 54 points 3 months ago

As much as I love the guy, what gets overlooked in popular understandings of the Institut für Sexualwissenchaft's work was that a great deal of it was the result of trans people coming in and advocating for themselves about what they wanted and the people at the institute working to find a solution. So in that sense, the creation of a somewhat primitive proto-gender affirming care regimine was done in direct collaboration with trans people, despite the fact that, like you say, a lot of cisgender men like Hirschfeld and Levy-Lenz got the credit for it.

Also, I had no idea we finally got a Hirschfeld emote, that rules hirschfeld

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 33 points 3 months ago

So who are the cool and rad trans people who self-advocated and helped to create the Institut? Has history recorded many of their names?

[-] axont@hexbear.net 40 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The most famous name is probably Dora Richter. She worked directly with Hirschfeld and she's usually regarded as the first known person to receive a vaginoplasty (in 1931). She had a very difficult life and disappeared off the face of the Earth in 1939 though.

Unfortunately though history wasn't great at recording the names of the various queer people who were clients at the institute. For one, most of them wanted privacy. 1930s Germany wasn't exactly the greatest time to be a publicly known queer person, so many of the records used pseudonyms or abbreviations of names. A lot of the recorded names are just a first name, last initial, and address, for instance. Second, the Nazis burned the Institut's archives, so much of the notes/research are lost.

I should also point out that Hirschfeld himself was a gay man. His partner, Karl Giese, was the Institut's head archivist and he was killed by the Nazis at the Lodz ghetto in 1942. Any amount of research you do into the history of this place will probably fill you with terrible sadness and I'm sorry. They were really ahead of their time, reaching near modern levels of understanding of queer people, and yet the entire thing was stomped to death by fascist scum.

[-] ashinadash@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago

Even just this does fill me with terrible sadness, it is depressing but it's a really critical part of our history to know. We're still here!

[-] PoisonIvy@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

We are still here, we have always been here, and we will always be here. Reading Leslie Feinberg's Transgender Liberation: A Movement Whose Time Has Come filled me with such an overwhelming feeling of solidarity and love for these people who lived and died for hundreds, thousands of years before us, in every part of the world. I'm tearing up as I write this, even thinking about it. We are still here.

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[-] Azarova@hexbear.net 33 points 3 months ago

Like axont said, the unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of these people are anonymous to the historical record. If you're interested in this history then I highly recommend Gay Berlin: Birthplace of a Modern Identity by Robert Beachy and The Hirschfield Archives: Violence, Death, and Modern Queer Culture by Heike Bauer, both of which are on libgen. The latter has a little bit about Dora Richter in chapter 4 under the heading A Space for Transgender, pages 86-87 in the hardcopy (not sure if the libgen version aligns with that or not). Another very interesting, albeit short, source on this kind of self-advocacy can be found in the account of an American doctor, William J. Robinson, who visited the Institute in 1925: https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015011423632?urlappend=%3Bseq=397%3Bownerid=13510798887791650-401 (pages 391-396 if that didn't link properly). He inaccurately uses the term 'homosexual' for every queer person he talks about, but it's pretty easy to pick up on who's trans from what he descibes. His description of Hirschfeld and the Institute is absolutely glowing, he seemingly can't heap enough praise on the work they were doing. One of my favorite parts is how he laments that he would love to set up a similar institution in the US, but deems American society to be far too reactionary to allow it,

"The scope of the Institute is a much wider one, embracing as it does the entire field of sexology. It is an institution absolutely unique in the whole world. It is an institution of which I dreamed for many years and which I hoped to establish in the United States but which I felt would not thrive on account of our prudish, hypocritical attitude to all questions of sex. In such an institution one has to have a free hand; the advice given must be unhampered by any fear of violating some medieval law or of colliding with a stupidly childish, and for that reason all the more tyrannical public opinion. What can be done in barbarous Europe cannot always be done in ultra-civilized North America. [...] The United States could certainly use five or six such Institutes—say one in New York, one in Boston, one in Chicago, one in Atlanta, one in San Francisco. They would all have plenty of work to do, and less ignorance and consequently less misery in sex matters would be the result. When I get back to New York I may try to establish the first Institute of this kind in the United States—thus doing on a large scale what I have been doing on a small scale for a quarter of a century. And then again I may not: too much hard, nerve-wrecking work."

Anyway, a bit more on topic: his article ends with a very bittersweet sentiment that I think about all the time, "May the [Institute] be built on a permanent, never to be shaken foundation." Fuck this billionaire freak for denying this horrific tragedy that saw the loss of invaluable queer history and research, and set us back decades in medical development and understanding of queer people. gui-trans

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[-] Llituro@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago

it's one of those things where it just feels obvious that an effort should be made at every level to actually include trans people in the research about themselves. like my scientific training is in space shit, and let me tell you, if i could teach a blackhole how to research itself i fucking would have.

[-] ComradeChairmanKGB@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 3 months ago

She talks like a redditor lmao

[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 37 points 3 months ago
[-] Anne_Teefa@hexbear.net 36 points 3 months ago

Damn you think she'd know the history of the people who bombed the living hell out of her parents / grandparents houses

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[-] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 34 points 3 months ago

Very curious to see what that thread looks like (but not curious enough to create a Twitter account)

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[-] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago

Terfs gonna terf

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this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
175 points (99.4% liked)

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