this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2024
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Code Rule (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 9 months ago by rambling_lunatic@sh.itjust.works to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 95 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I'm honestly glad Linus learned to tone down this kind of talk or at least reserve it for situations in which it is more merited.

Because while in the majority of instances he was correct, he left a lot of folks feeling like The Dude from The Big Lebowski.

You're not wrong, Walter. You're just an asshole.

For a long time it was a particularly hostile environment to people trying to learn the ropes of open source contribution.

However, on the flip side, I am also glad he hasn't turned it off completely, because while it is important to foster a welcoming and inclusive environment, sometimes creating that welcoming environment involves sternly telling someone off about their behavior, when that behavior is unwelcoming or generally unhelpful.

Anyway, applause for Linus for showing emotional and social growth.

[–] Vilian@lemmy.ca 21 points 9 months ago (1 children)

i agree with you except here

For a long time it was a particularly hostile environment to people trying to learn the ropes of open source contribution.

noone there is learning, and mainteiners also aren't paid to teach anyone

[–] Cypher@lemmy.world 44 points 9 months ago

noone there is learning

Wrong. Dead wrong.

In the email chain subsequent to this exchange Linus even addressed the fact that the contributor would be better off learning about kernel development by focusing on the removal of unnecessary code and clean up.

No one jumps into kernel development knowing everything.

Maintainers need to teach people, not just about the culture and ethos, but about best practices and Linus had taught people constantly.

He has also learned a lot from others. To suggest otherwise is to think that Linus knew everything about kernel development back when he first began Linux development.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The kernel development isn't supposed to be the place to learn

[–] atyaz@reddthat.com 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It absolutely is. It's not the place to learn the basics obviously, but members need to learn what is expected of them, just like on any other team/organization.

Linus's outbursts absolutely hinder growth. He's lucky that his project has become so important and people will work on it regardless, but he and the Linux kernel would have been better off if he was wasn't driving people away as much as he was.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If they don't know what is expected of them or think they'll get by with shit code then I think it's fairly understandable to tell them to at least lurk moar.

he and the Linux kernel would have been better off if he was wasn't driving people away as much as he was

I'm just worried with him gone if shitty code and practises will seep in.

[–] atyaz@reddthat.com 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There are projects out there with excellent practices with a good culture surrounding quality where people aren’t told to kill themselves. There are other ways to establish that culture and set high expectations.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 9 months ago

No doubt, but I can't say I much disagree with his sentiment about requiring sudo password for connecting to a wifi.

[–] bastian_5@sh.itjust.works 33 points 9 months ago (3 children)

About 75% of the code I copy I then figure out through a combination of fucking around and deduction

[–] MachineFab812@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 9 months ago

Not the technical definition of due diligence, but possibly more than happened here...

[–] herrcaptain@lemmy.ca 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You're putting a positive spin on "fuck around and find out."

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago

Tbf, no one said the find out part had to be negative lmao

[–] kilgore_trout@feddit.it 5 points 9 months ago

If the code is going into the Kernel, it shouldn't be produced by "fucking around".

[–] Lepsea@sh.itjust.works 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Linus is amazing, i also love one of his other quote.

"Nvidia, F*ck You!"

  • Linus Torvalds
[–] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well I for one am shocked that people working in IT have a superiority complex.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

As a StackOverflow user, I feel attacked

[–] swizzle9144@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 9 months ago

Linus Tech Tips

[–] germanatlas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 9 months ago

He’s got a point

[–] XTornado@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Then he suggested blocking him just for a week.... if he did it again... which sounded very little....to me.