this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2026
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We know voting in bourgeois USian democracy is only affected by people in swing states (and even that is "which ghoul do you want to administer the dictatorship of capital") but hear me out.

A comrade recently posted about ironically or unironically (I didn't read enough into the thread) voting for AfD in Germany and it reminded me of a WaPo article that read:

"Several U.S. military leaders have advised Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that prolonging large-scale operations against Iran is unsustainable and risks weakening their ability to confront threats elsewhere, including the U.S. homeland, according to people familiar with a recent assessment prepared for the Pentagon chief."

So it got me thinking, by continuing to overextend the military, as empires do, are we actually seeing "two, three, many Vietnams"? Is the way to exhaust the empire's military into submission to vote for Trump? On one hand we have the King of Hubris (hubris being the guarantor of empire decline) and on the other hand things might have played out this way while wearing a Democrat mask, too, as we know the real driving force is capital accumulation and Epstein island retreats. The down side is the harm that comes to marginalized and oppressed people, which again also happens under Dems when it's their turn to protect capital accumulation and Epstein island retreats. I know in Germany it's different because there are several parties but in the US we're a one party state, but with typical American extravagance, we have two of them (shout out to Julius Nyerere). So would voting for Republicans be a net positive for the world and the demise of capitalism? Should we just abstain from voting? Vote blue for harm reduction?

A big piece of evidence for this theory comes from my personal experience- how many people I know afk that are now (recently) radicalized. People I wouldn't expect in a million years to actually be down with changing the system are now fervent revolutionaries. Comrade Trump is the greatest left wing organizer since Lenin. That's right I said it.

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[–] SexUnderSocialism@hexbear.net 71 points 1 week ago
[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 57 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Accelerationism is bullshit. If you want to do something stupid, do adventurism instead.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hexbear users only know two things: electoralism and drive bits into the ground.

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Once in a while I see a picture I dont understand, and I wish there was alt text for it so I could learn more about it.


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[–] Aradino@hexbear.net 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Looks like a screenshot from the movie Armageddon, showing four oil drillers on an asteroid planting a nuke to blow it up and save earth

[–] edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Thanks.


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[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 8 points 1 week ago

"Bruce Willis and company demonstrates the most technologically sophisticated example of driving a bit into the ground"

[–] Aradino@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

Happy to help rat-salute-2

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[–] THEPH0NECOMPANY@hexbear.net 53 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Just because the meat grinder meant to grind up the marginalized and 3rd world gets damaged when they shove people into it doesn't mean we should shove even more people in to break it quicker.

[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 26 points 1 week ago

Thank you for explaining this so concisely.

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[–] Beaver@hexbear.net 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You do not, under any circumstances, “gotta hand it to Trump”

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[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 30 points 1 week ago

Of course, the best way to beat fascists is to empower them /s

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 29 points 1 week ago
[–] Kuori@hexbear.net 28 points 1 week ago

go to the nearest concentration camp and ask the people inside what they think

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 26 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There have been several threads about the topic of voting for Trump specifically before, and threads about the topic of accelerationism in general before, and the answer now is still the same as it was in 2024, in 2020, and really since the dawn of politics: accelerationism is not an effective strategy. There is nothing particular about the present day situation that makes it any different from the historical precedent which countless people have already written about. To put it simply, a successful revolution requires a large-scale, organized revolutionary movement with the support of the masses, capable of resisting the status quo. Accelerationism is making things worse without the means to make things better, which is historically how you get fascism. What we must remember is that things will always get worse of their own accord, but slowing down that worsening is how we get the necessary time and means to build a successful revolutionary movement.


christmas-crab-legs You should watch SPARKLE ON RAVEN: The Life of DrillGirl; it is a very good show. {Cēterum|Furthermore} {cēnseō|I think} {iūs auctōris|copyright} {esse dēlendum|must be destroyed}.

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[–] shallot@hexbear.net 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

A bit more than just a cis take, frankly, more of a broadly privileged take. My initial reply to this thread is trying to be firm but not hostile, but I think my frustration still shows a bit, because this accelerationist idea really feels "some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make / this is the first time in my adult life that an issue has impacted me personally". A recurring thought I've had for a while now is whether I'm outgrowing this site, whether this site is just culturally getting worse, or perhaps both, because I think the first time when I criticized what I called "kulture" (or "socialism as a subculture", or "Marxism-Leninism-Gobshitism") on our site was in August of 2025, but I feel like the issue has really come to a head this year. Emphasis on "feel like" — this isn't an empirical statistic — and I should specify that this applies to both Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and the broader Lemmy left. In essence, Marxism and leftism are turned into memes to be quoted ad nauseam, and people "read" not to learn how to best act to improve the world, but to prove that they belong in an online community. Even dialectical materialism becomes a "do as I say and not as I do", where people can quote its basic meaning and claim to follow the philosophy, yet never actually apply the dialectical method in their analyses or daily lives as anything more than lip service. People failing to consider more than one aspect of an issue at a time leads to a lot of reactionary nonsense passing for "leftism", and while the worst cases usually get removed and corrected, this reactionism still seems to fester far too often, leaving online leftist spaces increasingly muddied with correct stances gradually pushed out by the incorrect stances of those who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". I'm reminded of this quote from Philip Short's 2004 biography of Pol Pot that a friend shared with me:

Most of them, moreover, had only the vaguest notions of Marxist theory. Thiounn Mumm, Khieu Samphân and, a generation later, radical students like Suong Sikoeun and In Sopheap waded through Lenin’s Materialism and Empirio-Criticism and State and Revolution, Stalin’s Economic Problems of Socialism and other ponderous tomes, but they were the exceptions who proved the rule. Sâr confessed later that when he read ‘the big, thick works of Marx . . . I didn’t really understand them at all.’ Ping Sây, too, thought that ‘Marx was too deep for us’.

OP doesn't speak for Hexbear. The fact that the comments here pretty much unanimously say that accelerationism is wrong shows that. And yet, people never say things unless they feel they can in some sense "get away with it", right? So there is some underlying current in our site's culture that not only led OP to develop this idea, but to also not think to reflect any deeper on the idea or look up any previous threads about it before posting. I do not want to judge OP for still being in the process of learning, and in that process having a bad take and doing something without thinking; I've been there, and OP has allowed self to be corrected, and that is what's most important. But things like this should always get us thinking about what we can do about our site culture to make cases like this less frequent.


christmas-crab-legs You should watch SPARKLE ON RAVEN: The Life of DrillGirl; it is a very good show. {Cēterum|Furthermore} {cēnseō|I think} {iūs auctōris|copyright} {esse dēlendum|must be destroyed}.

[–] shallot@hexbear.net 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This all seems very reasonable and well considered to me. I probably should have come in with something more productive. I feel like I’ve just been seeing a lot more of this type of thing lately, most of the news I’ve seen (including but of course not limited to trans stuff) lately has got me feeling extra doomed, and also I have some shit going on IRL that’s got me more on edge than usual anyway, and I let the “this is rad, actually” of it all get to me more than I ought to have.

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Come in with what you have the energy for: it's important to let yourself feel your feelings, you really don't have to blunt yourself in these sorts of situations just because being a little more polite or a little more verbose maybe has a slightly better chance of getting your point across. I think trans women are often deathly afraid of "taking up space" and end up becoming prone to being overly self-critical or self-flagellating, almost as if we're looking for reasons to say we're wrong or undeserving. I'm certainly not immune to that, either, but I try to be cognizant of it. In this case, just saying "very cis take" is a laconism that doesn't necessarily spell out the issue, but that sort of laconism is only unproductive if it doesn't inspire reflection on the part of OP — and whether OP responds to upset by thinking "damn, maybe this was a bad take" depends on how sage OP is, which is OP's responsibility, not yours. You have a right to be mad, and not volunteer your mental health for another's sake, "each according to ability".

I find that it's pretty rare that I get mad at people who are mad at me. There are some times when differences really are irreconcilable, yes, but in most cases, I will either listen and pretty quickly understand that I was wrong, or if I know to begin with that the anger is coming from a misunderstanding, then I don't actually feel like the anger is directed at me, and I can deescalate. Especially on a site like this where everyone is already going to be on edge. Never will I say that people don't have a right to be mad. If people insist upon you being polite at all times, that you must never show your upset, then that just creates a culture where the only people who can speak are those who can treat politics like a game, the privileged who don't have much to lose.

Another important idea: just culture. This is another point that a lot of Hexbears struggle with: you shouldn't be saying "who's to blame" but rather "what caused the problem", because "mistakes are generally a product of faulty organizational cultures, rather than solely brought about by the person or persons directly involved." I first started to think about this because I used to watch a lot of Mentour Pilot and just culture is the basis of plane crash reports, and I really do think that a lot of people's lives would be a lot better if they started thinking in those terms instead of blaming others or blaming themselves. A lot of the posts I see on !selfcrit@hexbear.net really feel like they boil down to "I did a bad thing and I'm sorry" instead of actually reflecting on what happened and what can be done going forward. You're saying that you "let it get to you more than you ought to have", but what does that actually mean? Setting aside that I think you're in your right to be laconically mad to begin with, but you didn't exactly print a permission slip and hand it to this post and say "OK, you can cause me to be mad now" and then the post said "very good, I will cause you to be mad now" and then you were mad. No, you saw something that made you feel despair about the world, and you responded as if you were feeling despair about the world, because you were.

Somewhat tangential, but I often find myself thinking about the whole Daoist parable of the river, where the water bends around the stone, and yet the stone is still eroded by the water, "action without action" or wu wei — that idea that by spontaneity and non-interference all things will be done in due time, to do things without forcing them. I dunno. The concept has been interpreted and misinterpreted in so many ways over the millennia, yet I still try to consider the idea in my daily life, and I have to wonder what the wu wei response to someone's accelerationism would've been for you. I'm pretty certain the response you actually had — a response that said all it really needed to without any extra effort — is closer than the response you think you should've made in hindsight.


christmas-crab-legs You should watch SPARKLE ON RAVEN: The Life of DrillGirl; it is a very good show. {Cēterum|Furthermore} {cēnseō|I think} {iūs auctōris|copyright} {esse dēlendum|must be destroyed}.

[–] shallot@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I’m going to have to take some time and read through this a bit, but for a quick response, the main problem that I have with my response is that I shot the second arrow, so to speak. I also think that while it encapsulated what I was feeling fairly well, this is (or at least should be) a place where we help each other to be better, and taking some more time to explain why I felt that way may have been more helpful. So, it’s not so much that I feel wrong to have had that response as it is that I feel like I would like to have been more productive and less reactive, maybe. Which may not be required, but is how I’d like to be, at least in the face of naïveté. Outright, intentional malice is obviously a different situation, but I suspect that’s not what we have here.

Also, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. :)

[–] TherapyGary@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I just assumed OP was joking. @happybaby@hexbear.net were you not joking?

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[–] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 18 points 1 week ago (2 children)
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[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

A big piece of evidence for this theory comes from my personal experience- how many people I know afk that are now (recently) radicalized. People I wouldn't expect in a million years to actually be down with changing the system are now fervent revolutionaries.

It's cool if you've had this experience, but looking at the general reaction of going from first term Trump to Biden, how many libs just happily went back to brunch? The electoralism comm header image even had a joke about it. Also I think this website has discussed accelerationism before...


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[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

how many libs just happily went back to brunch?

Do not be fooled that anti-trumpism is a radical position on the same footing as anti-capitalism. Just look at how many countries support America and Israel attacking Iran, the only problem is how it's being done. The UK and other euros are still providing support to them, fucking kkklanada is condemning Iran even in the middle of Trump threatening annexation! Western countries for all their bluster are still in lockstep behind america following every order. It's never a problem with the reality of America's actions, the issue is always the optics.

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

yea the canadian shit especially is a joke. Carney is such a neoliberal doofus, the idea of a genuinely anti-US canada is comical I'm afraid.


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[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Seriously, like people are talking a big game about American threats of annexation and how we all hate America now (I'll enjoy it while it lasts, it's nice to be able to say "fuck america" and have people agree with me for once even though I know they heard "fuck trump") but the second there's a choice between supporting america or one of their victims Carney couldn't move to condemn the Iranian "regime" fast enough. It's fucking pathetic, literally zero sense of solidarity (unsurprising coming from a white settler state) even when IRANIANS ARE ACTUALLY BEING FUCKING MURDERED. But noooo trump tweeting some stupid ai map showing Canada as part of America that's a bridge too far

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[–] Abracadaniel@hexbear.net 15 points 1 week ago
[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 15 points 1 week ago

It's not based to vote for Trump because voting will never be based.

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

first post in almost a month

"fellas is it hecking based to vote for trump?"

[–] Arahnya@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago
[–] juice_@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago (6 children)

The role of socialists is to side with the working class. Defeat of the empire does not come from losing a war or three, it comes from organizing the working class on the basis of our class interests. Racism and fascism are bourgeois, they divide the working class and seize power for billionaires. The interests of the working class and the capitalists are exactly opposite. Trump is carrying out the agenda of billionaires, enriching himself, and destroying the lives of millions.

No socialist movement has ever succeeded by going against the working class. It's been tried and it never amounts to socialism. Don't be a sucker.

[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That implies the goal is building socialism in the US instead of just bogging down the imperial hegemony blocking socialism everywhere else.

I can't say this is good strategy, but I'm pretty convinced Trump is the lesser evil (not on purpose either) when compared with the other bourgeois party. But again, voting in bourgeois parliaments is not praxis.

[–] AnarchoAnarchist@hexbear.net 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

bogging down the imperial hegemony blocking socialism everywhere else

Even by this metric, I don't think that you can make the argument Trump has done Socialism in Venezuela or Cuba any favors

Of course, he is very actively trying to hamstring any socialist projects. He is just slightly less competent at it than the Dems IMO. This is not a material difference, so is negligible overall in terms of importance. No one should be working for Trump thinking it will benefit socialism in any way whatsoever.

[–] juice_@hexbear.net 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

No, the working class is international. It exists in the US, it exists in the third world. The working class everywhere, including he US, is terrorized by Trumps admin. What you're proposing is not a viable tactic, it is not a viable strategy.

Voting in bourgeois parliaments is not praxis

Lenin advocated participating in bourgeois elections and even wrote a whole book about it, and how people who were absolutists were politically undeveloped. Participating in elections isn't a revolutionary strategy, but it can be a part of one.

Trump is the lesser evil

Lesser evilism, but for MAGA? How does taking the #1 thing we criticize the democrats for and using it to support Trump make any sense? You are incoherent.

[–] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What you're proposing is not a viable tactic, it is not a viable strategy.

I did not propose anything, certainly not voting for Trump as a harm reduction strategy. I'm just pointing out that Trump has probably done less damage to international socialism than a marginally more intelligent imperial admin run by the Dems would have.

Lenin advocated participating in bourgeois elections and even wrote a whole book about it, and how people who were absolutists were politically undeveloped.

The Vaush argument is not an effective one. Lenin was certainly not suggesting to vote for Dems.

How does taking the #1 thing we criticize the democrats for and using it to support Trump make any sense?

This is an uncharitable read of what I was saying. Do not mistake me for a lib suggesting that you vote for or support the lesser evil. Supporting Trump for this reason is as foolish as when we criticize the dems for it. Our point should be that lesser-evilism is not an effective strategy to achieving our goals. Who tf cares who the lesser evil is if it is evil regardless?

I was merely suggesting that if we look at the actions of bourgeois leaders, Trump is creating an environment more favorable to the objective of liberating the world from American imperialism by overextending the military on strategic blunders while diminishing American soft power on silly threats towards euroklanadian crackkker countries.

Operationally, from the standpoint of building socialism in the US, Trump probably does make things harder. My point is that US hegemony will be destroyed by developing areas in the global south, not expecting some bs white savior syndrome of Marxist revolution in the US before then.

What I said is only incoherent if you are inferring shit that I did not imply. Ffs do I need a dozen asterisks on Hexbear so people dont read this shit as support for Trump? I expect that shit from liberal.world, but not here.

[–] juice_@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I think you're imagining socialism as something separate from the working class, and imperialism as something essentially USAmerican. The interests of the capitalists and the workers are total opposites. Contradictions abound, and capitalism creates its own grave diggers, but Trump reps the interests of the capitalists, just like the democrats, and inflicts horrible attacks on the working class all over the world.

You haven't provided any evidence to the contrary so I dont know why you feel the need to point out that Trump is better for socialism than the democrats, it seems like you're over thinking, trying to have a take. There is clearly a lot of confusion in this post and I dont think you're helping clear up any of it. Like, you throw that Lenin chapter in my face, compare me to Vaush, when Lenin is explicit about strategy and tactics:

it has been proved that, far from causing harm to the revolutionary proletariat, participation in a bourgeois-democratic parliament, even a few weeks before the victory of a Soviet republic and even after such a victory, actually helps that proletariat to prove to the backward masses why such parliaments deserve to be done away with; it facilitates their successful dissolution, and helps to make bourgeois parliamentarianism “politically obsolete”. To ignore this experience, while at the same time claiming affiliation to the Communist International, which must work out its tactics internationally (not as narrow or exclusively national tactics, but as international tactics), means committing a gross error and actually abandoning internationalism in deed, while recognising it in word. (emphasis mine)

You aren't suggesting a tactic or a strat, based on your own defense. So what exactly is the point? You're making a highly controversial claim with no evidence and then get upset when someone takes you at your word. It seems like you're a little too in your head and need to get out and do some actual organizing work.

But I appreciate the lengthier response.

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[–] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In this particular case I see how some acceleration has been beneficial for growth of radicalization, but leaning into it would give him more power to smother it in the cradle. Not to mention it further accelerates radicalization on the right wing. Sudden shocks of contradictions can pull people out of getting used to it, but we really don't need to help the system along, it finds a way to go nutty mode without us. We need to stick to presenting an alternative vision and continue to warn about where this is headed. When things do get worse, we can ask the disbelievers if they're ready to start taking leftist theory seriously.

If we cheer on the rampage like a bunch of cackling hyenas, nobody will want to work with us when the masses organize, and they'll be scooped up by reactionaries and liberals.

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[–] AvocadoVapelung@hexbear.net 6 points 1 week ago

writing in assorted memes, revolutionaries and badly drawn dicks is based

[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If somehow the most America-hating Islamocommunist in the world got elected president he couldn't dismantle the Empire faster than JDPON Don is doing

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