Ask Lemmy

Join the union building trades my dude. Wake up early, make six figures, and get paid to be trained. We dont go into debt for education. We go into debt buying boats and shit.

You can’t. Neither can any middle-aged person, nor old person.

I'm in my mid 40s and I dunno. I thought I had it. Now, my company that promised permanent remote work and confirmed my moving was fine, is trying to kill remote work. I live in very rural Japan and there aren't many jobs out here. No US/Canada companies seem interested in working with a backend engineer on the other side of the world. I have back problems so there are also limits on what physical work I can do so something like construction is basically not an option. So, with my life more than half over, I might lose everything again. If I do, my life will just go to being completely over.

I think stuff like urban planning and designing walkable environments would be cool, but I'm not sure if that's a viable path in 2027 and beyond

Without knowing that much about the field, I would think that urban design should stick around long into the future. Those projects take decades to complete, and there's always new cities and developments.

Even if the US is currently drinking the stupid juice when it comes to what makes a good city, either that will change soon or you can apply your skills to projects outside of the US

Honestly? Take a small business accounting class and bone up on the tax code (which is more common sense than people think - I do my own taxes and have for decades.. it's pretty easy once you work it out) that relates to it and become a CPA.

THAT one will always be needed because people that run businesses often have the lousiest head when it comes to the numbers.

Done right, you won't be in any situation that demands too much physicality so if your not as mobile as you'd want, you can stil work.

You don't. We live in a fucked up society and nothing about this situation will changed until society changes at a fundamental level.

We're fucked mate.

This book was a great help to me.

"Discover What You Are Best At" by Linda Gail .

It's a series of self tests you can finish in a day, and then the book lists the jobs that you might find appealing.

For example, a hair stylist and a nurse both need good people skills and good dexterity. Two totally different jobs with similar skill sets.

I found the book when I was abotu your age, and it gave me a push in the right direction

If it makes you feel better, in Sweden, the average age of students is 25. Why? A lot of them do what they want and figure things out first before deciding. A lot travel, work, or save money before going to college. It's the norm for them.

Meanwhile for the rest of the world, we're pressured to figure things out as soon as we leave high school. Looking back, it's mainly because we are pressured by our parents to go to college. It became a status symbol and bragging rights for them if their kids went to college.

I think there's value in asking not what interests you but rather how you want to work, particularly in your case. The ugly thing is that you don't just find that knowledge on the kitchen counter one morning, you usually find out by working a job.

Disclaimer: I live in Europe, I am middle aged and I've worked in more than one profession and more than one country.

I think ideally you do some entry level thing, maybe without study if you're worried about the expense, and you see what "how" suits you. Then you decide if you want to study or not but the aim is to expand the "how".

Design or Architecture: This usually requires you or someone else to sell your skillset rather well. That someone else is difficult to find, so the question is: Are you cool with doing that? Are you happy to tell people just why your design is the best they can get? There's niche jobs in this area as with many others, but in my experience not quite as many.

Tech: IT has for a long time served as a great market for people who did some sort of STEM-stuff. As a result of the size and growth of the industry in the past 50 years, people were much needed and earned rather well. This also means that cutting costs by reducing employee count looks rather attractive right now. But it's also starting to backfire in many ways, be it the fact that AI runs wild in some cases or that in others companies just didn't really know how much AI would cost them. There's a lot of examples, but it'll still take time to sink in that AI can do some stuff, but it can't do all the stuff all the time, unless you're fine losing control of your code. There's also not a whole lot of regulation yet and that will absolutely change.

So here's what I think you should ask yourself:

• Am I extroverted and happy to spend time with strangers? (This pays into sales jobs and promoter-stuff.)
• Am I someone who is good at disappointing people? (Regulation needs its own people, they often come highly specialised and their job is to tell others what's safe to do, thus creating disappointment. Management is also a lot of eggshells to walk on, but it's not always creating disappointment.)
• Am I passionate enough about a field to deeply invest and let it bleed into my life? (Sometimes there is something you absolutely must do and when you know that, it's okay to embrace it.)
• How well do I work within a team? (Your first team may not be the best team ever, but if you can fit in without hating the situation, cut the others some slack and exist within that system, that's a skill.)
• Am I someone who gets into that hyper focus kinda state where I just work alone for hours and that makes me happy? (This is going the science route, even IT relies on team work to a certain degree, but the more trial and error and writing a job involves, the more you need to be motivated on your own.)
• Am I a born service provider? (Some of us are not front row extroverts but really just want to make life better for everyone. In that case look at support or some job that cooperates with a team but does their own thing later on. We're looking at assistant roles, documentation - where AI didn't ruin it, UX ... and as I said: Support.)
• Do I need pressure or stress to get things done? (Some of us do. That's okay, but let's then pick something that gives us deadlines or the right amount of pressure to actually perform. Or - if you're on the other end of this - a place with long-term planning and very clear expectations, so you can settle into a routine.)

Many of these things are completely independent of the area you later work in, if you do the finances for a charity or work on organising funds raisers for start ups, if you end up as a scrum master with a dev team or an auditor for building sites, they are all different combinations of those things above. If you find the right combination, you find what you can do well and what will make you somewhat happy.

My personal advice: Pick something that comes to you with ease (meaning it's something you don't look at the clock about), life will find a way to make it challenging anyway.

Good luck!

I would encourage you to continue to pursue your interests in programming despite AI advancements. Sticking with something you're interested in means you can stay motivated even when dealing with less pleasant other aspects of your job that always exist like annoying co-workers. Having the core work you enjoy has been critical in my career as I could get absorbed into it and block out other negatives. It also is a job where its quite acceptable to work remotely and based on your health conditions it seems like a good match.

I totally understand the anxiety around the future, and a degree is a huge financial investment. One way that might help is to think about learning in terms of adding tools to your belt, and less about training for job A and then getting job A. Programming has a lot transferable skills across many industries so you can follow the money into whatever industry is in demand by the time you finish your studies (it will probably be ai related IMHO). Whereas city planning is highly specialised and those skills are harder to transfer to the point you're locking yourself into an industry with a heavily limited revenue stream.

AI has changed how we work significantly but we will always need humans in the loop who actually know what's going on. This comes from someone with 26 years in the industry. There is so much more to building software than just coding too. Don't let the doomers get to you.

My other advice is while support networks can be helpful don't put your survival onto anyone else's shoulders. In my personal experience people are human at the end of the day they can let you down, and at the worst possible time. It's so so so much better to build self reliance and resilience. I think your assessment is true, people are hyper individualistic today, that said people do care still (look at all the replies in this thread trying to help), but there are limits to altruism. So for the question, where to invest to get stability, honestly my answer isn't community or your career, it's you invest in yourself and your own capabilities for the best chance of a successful future.

Good luck!

I’m older but have the same sense you have. I think your best bet is to choose a career to pursue based on the kind of contribution you’d like to make to the world.

Right now, AI is mostly changing the way some jobs are done. Other new tech will probably contribute to more of those kinds of changes. If you choose a career primarily based a skillset you like using, I think there’s a good chance you’ll end up very disappointed later when the way the jobs are done changes. But if you choose based on impact and then develop a range of skills (especially people skills!), you’re more likely to end up OK.

You mentioned that programming and urban development interested you. Urban development seems more directly about making a certain kind of impact, so in your shoes, I’d go that direction. That said, I don’t know why you’re interested in programming, and maybe there’s an impact you want to make in that field too.

I made the mistake of choosing a career based on a skillset. New technology has reduced jobs in my field, but the much larger problem is that I hate the way the jobs are done now. I could probably stay motivated and do the extra shit needed to survive in that career in the longer term if I still felt like it made a positive impact on society, but the field itself doesn’t make the world better. So I made a shift into a new industry, although I’m not expecting stability from this one either, and it’s not one that would make sense for you based on your post.

Hi I'm an American doctor here. I'm going to parrot something my father told me growing up. (I come from a family of doctors). "They will always need doctors".

I resisted it because I took it for granted but he was right. Being a doctor is among the most stable lifestyles you can find today. I live like I think everyone should be able to live. I can tell my job when I'm not available. People take my opinion seriously(even in non medical matters).

The road to being a doctor is hard as balls and will take a minimum of 7 years (often more) before you can do anything with it but you get to help people, you get to think critically every day, and the life is stable. Tbh I can't imagine myself doing anything else now. (If you had asked me during training how I felt, I would have told you this was the biggest mistake of my life).

The road to the end is very very long and it is very very stressful. I felt like I was going to die during it several times.

I've worked with many people who like stability, and those who embrace change. It really depends on one's personality.

Problem is that the world of work has changed. There are very few guarantees any more. In that case you have to decide if you want something that appears stable on the surface, but can be rug-pulled in a hurry. Or if you just accept that everything will change and adjust your expectations and life plans.

The former allows you to go deep and acquire expertise in one area. The latter gives you breadth, but may mean you won't get deep into a single field.

This might seem a bit abstract, but it really means one needs to do a gut check when planning a career.

A third option is to just wing it and see what comes along.

I don't think there is job stability anymore. Society fucked over everybody except the ultra rich.

There's so many people transitioning from IT to plumbers and electricians that market will be oversaturated soon enough. I guess there's becoming a doctor if you can handle 7 years of schooling.

Im sorry but I honestly don't know what to recommend. I can say I changed my career when it did not work out in my late 20's and that lasted awhile but now im unemployed in my 50's and can't really do that. I can't move in with family and retrain and such. The one thing I can say is I have gotten more things out of academia than just jobs. I am very glad I was in a LAS program and took an elementary logic class. LAS gets a lot of flack and admitadely its not great at a large school with crazy large classrooms but having a good breadth of education outside of your field is valuable. That being said you mention your 23 which would suggest your passed that point. If not I would recommend doing as much cheap education like community college and searching as much as you can for scholarships to avoid the debt trap.

Stay true to yourself and accept that you can't win but you also don't have to settle.

In the biggest picture it really is what you do now. Be mindful of the now. You can't do anything about then. You might be able to have an effect on the next.

So make your now as better as you can and do whatever it takes to make the next the best it can be.

Do your self a favor and be honest with what you can and can't do.

If you can, then you should do

If you can't, then find the way that makes it so you can.

I believe in you friend. I can't really explain how much you have against you but it's nothing new. Make sure to figure out your priorities and set goals to make it happen while being ready to take advantage of options.

Opportunity and timing and the truth factors in life.

Make sure you take the opportunity when it comes. It will come and sometimes it comes with baggage or in the most inopportune moment

You're going to have to say more about the chronic illness for any career advice.

Man, I remember when I was 23, good times! Yeah, gonna be real things like work, school, and all that productive stuff won't make you feel stable. I spent a lot of my time wondering about that phrase that happiness is what you make of it.

When I was like 19, I felt I had no path forward and my dumbass served 6 years in the US Army. I had a near death experience in Iraq when I got fucking blown up and you know what went through my head? Was it the incredible team meetings when I was an NCO, the great grades I had in school, the awesome days of work when I got a lot done? No, it was the time I spent with friends, getting so drunk I passed out in a field, going to gaming tournaments, bowling, and all that. So what's gonna matter in the end isn't going to be anythong 'productive' at all.

Work and school are oh so much fucking applesauce. And hell, making more friends does help with jobs. I got my job now, as a civilian, because of the friendships I made in the Army.

...I feel like I old man rambled. Yeah, get out there and make friends. Literally just talk to people. Out of nowhere. Hell yeah.

An important thing to note is that AI is actually not capable of replacing jobs. It can streamline some jobs in a limited capacity.

The perception that AI is replacing jobs is a lie that's spread by both employers and AI companies for various reasons.

The AI companies want to spread it because it makes their products look better to employers. It's just marketing for them.

Employers are claiming that AI is replacing jobs because they overhired during and after Covid lockdowns and the industry is correcting for the oversaturation now that the economy has gotten tighter. But layoffs from reduced profits looks really bad to shareholders, and the company wants to look good to keep the stock up. Because of thus, they're trying to spin the narrative that AI's increase in productivity let them reduce positions despite it not being true.

All that being said, the job market is tough. If you're good at math, engineering is usually a good pick. There's been a shortage of mechanical engineers in a lot of the US over the past decade. These are jobs that pay well, and if you're competent and willing to move you shouldn't have trouble finding a job. That being said, the areas with the biggest shortages tend to be rural, though they're often still within 1hr of a city.

The big catch for engineering is that school is damned hard. For my degree, I consistently needed 18-20 credit hours of classes each semester to finish in 4 years. Between that, studying, work, and hobbies that can be a difficult proposition. Plus, you still need to have soft skills like communication. You're going to have a harder time getting a job if you can't hold a conversation.

You don't. You get a new job every two years.

Despite what the Boomers have told you, "stability" is a thing of the past. Your best opportunity for growth and regular raises is to constantly switch jobs until you've contributed enough to your 401K to retire. And if you don't have a 401K, get one ASAP. Don't wait until your late 30s like I did or you'll be working until you drop dead. Take advantage of that employer match ASAP. It's basically free money on the table. (And if your employer doesn't offer a 401K with a match, well that's yet another reason to switch jobs.)

Also, I know this won't make you feel better, but you really do need to make sure that you're both happy with your choice of major, and able to make money from it. Otherwise you will struggle even more than the rest of us. I fucked around and dropped out because I didn't know what I wanted for a career, and I'm still paying for it. I will never know what it feels like to own a new car or anything nice. (FWIW I'd likely be in the same situation even if I did graduate, because I unfortunately picked STEM as my major and anyone who has gone down that path can tell you how useless of a degree it is.)

It fucking sucks that life is this way, but that's the reality we live in. When I was your age it took me about a decade to come to terms with the fact that the American dream only existed for two generations in America (Boomers and Gen X); everybody else gets to suffer. You'll eventually come to terms with it as well. Or you'll get mad enough at the billionaires that killed the American Dream and start a revolution.

go find a really boring unglamorous job.

it will be stable.

the problem is people don'tw ant stable jobs that are boring. they want glamorous jobs with high salaries and from big name companies... and wonder why they can't get those, but they won't work for a small business because they 'don't pay enough'.

Stuff like plumbing and electrician work seems to be pretty stable.

We don't.

Meditation.

There was never any stability in the world, but in times such as these it becomes painfully apparent.

The only place of stability is within.

That ironically also leads to the highest stability without.

A lot of negativity online and in this thread but imo that doesn't really represent the world. There's more career paths and options today then there ever was. If you have no responsibilities (family etc) then you should allow yourself to explore and time to build something.

Don't be afraid of weird or "low skill" - everything builds skills and connects to more opportunities but most importantly now more than ever it's important to be quitter - so you can actually leave at diminishing returns point and take advantage of new opportunities.

I thought having a government job was stable. I still have it but it's getting harder everyday. TR ru.p is fucking up a career i spent 10 years of my life on.

Yes staking your stability on your career is the wrong idea, I went through all of the stuff you are talking about too, I got the memo a little sooner because i was interested in graphic design and technology as careers since as long as I could make sense of the internet and so I've had a lot of time since 2020 to think about all of this.

The truth is, the world is complex but money is not, and money makes the world go round in this capitalist society. So your goal is to find what you can do that enables you to keep doing what you can do. I'm starting a business that allows me to do this so thst I can allow myself to do something different that also enables me more, it can be enabling either in resource collection or in money making basically, capital.

I used to be against businesses until I realized that the point of businesses is always to enable the community at every scale in every niche, so people being business owners is not synonymous with people being manipulative, its just that the same percentage of business people that are manipulative are the same amount of people who are not business owners that are manipulative, so it just seems like there's a lot because they have more influence basically.

I also went through a battery of interviews recently at different places for different things I'm good at before considering businesses and realized that most people are not going to know what someone who can do work for them looks like even if it hit them on the head, so evidently I have excellent ability to figure these things out even if it seems only baseline competant in my eyes.

Businesses are easier than you think, really don't need much to start out, I know of a forum called fastlane forum from mj demarco that has plenty of people testing ideas and talking about what worked and what didn't, some people start out with just a few thousand and basically just keep spamming that until they ended up with six figures after a few years.

And non profits I recently figured out do not require you to be a charity, it just has to be for public benefit. The only real difference besides some paperwork is that you don't get to sell assets in the end on top of what you pay yourself, which is ideally how a business should work anyways since you shouldn't be taking margin of the profits for yourself selfishly and instead be putting it back into the business so that it makes more money more faster for more people.

So don't be afraid to start doing something normal like refurbishing electronics but instead as a non profit where you will be able to take advantages of different accessibility to the same market of people along with better tax and networking advantages.

With thinking in terms of stable enabling, it becomes not about the money and about finding a way to live your life in a way that allows you to fall upwards.

That's the neat part...

Focus on your skills (what you know, what you are capable of doing et)