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Protests erupt in Argentina against President Javier Milei’s economic shock decree (argentinareports.com)

submitted 11 months ago by Rapidcreek@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[+] MamboGator@lemmy.world 258 points 11 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

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[-] Goferking0@ttrpg.network 68 points 11 months ago

Nah it's not that it's libertarianism failing it's just that idiots version of it failing

What they'll say when it fails or next time someone else tries to implement their ideals

[-] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 43 points 11 months ago

then immediately turn around and mock communists for saying something similar.

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[-] jaybone@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

But what will Lemmy communists say when you point out USSR and China?

[-] force@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

To be fair USSR after communism was leagues better than USSR before communism ever could have been. But it's not exactly proving much pointing out that an extremely unequal authoritarian regime is worse than a more equal but still authoritarian regime.

I don't think the comparison works anyway because this is a true example of exactly what most libertarians have wet dreams of, while with communism people try to use e.g. the USSR and PRC to discredit leftism as a whole (especially socialism) even though any leftist worth their salt would realize authoritarianism is bad and creates a dangerous hierarchy, which is why Marx and Engels specified their ideologies to be democratic.

[-] MadhuGururajan@programming.dev 1 points 11 months ago

I don't think China succeeded because of communism. They succeeded because Rich Industrialists in the west did not want to share their success with ordinary people and hence shifted all their work to China where the government ensured a steady supply of cheap labour. Of course, this only worked because the Chinese population was so poor that what were considered bad wages in the west was significantly more money than they would get back home.

Now this kind of outsourcing of labour is what lead to countries coming out of poverty: what made them poor in the first place? Rampant colonialism by EU nations. You can see this in Africa, South America, Asia.

[-] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

I measure a country's success by the quantity of weapons they produce

[-] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

He just didn't libertarian hard enough.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Nah it’s not that it’s libertarianism failing it’s just that idiots version of it failing

That's what Communists always say, the only one they worship is Lenin cuz he didn't have time to do anything anyway.

[-] ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

He had time to build the gulags

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[-] DeadHorseX@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm not a libertarian, I'm a social democrat.

The last century has been a total and unmitigated disaster for Argentina. The two options Argentinians had in this election were:

More of the same by the guy who oversaw inflation reaching 160% (100% chance of things getting worse)
A total wild card (99.9% chance of things getting worse)

Unsurprisingly, they went for the latter. I don't think anti-libertarians get to gloat in this context, given it's the Argentinian establishment which has overseen one of the most remarkable examples of total state-collapse and economic failure in modern history.

[-] NoSpiritAnimal@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

This makes a lot of sense if you pretend he didn't say or promise anything during the campaign.

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[-] Pipoca@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

The calculation shouldn't be "chance of things getting worse", but "expected value of how much worse it'll get".

[-] ragica@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago

I don't actually know anything. But casually to me it looked like a choice between 160% chance of it getting worse and a 300% chance of getting worse. And it's not very surprising at all in these circumstances many go for the latter for all sorts of reasons (and delusions). But I don't actually know anything.

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[-] kromem@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

More of the same by the guy who oversaw inflation reaching 160% (100% chance of things getting worse)

A total wild card (99.9% chance of things getting much worse)

FTFY

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

That's bad math. Yes, if you put the same people in office. There's nearly 100% chance that they will continue doing what they have been doing. Good or bad. But if you put a lunatic with a grudge against reality in office. Who is aligned, or would align himself with the people who caused the problem before. You have 150% chance that things will get worse.

[-] naharin@feddit.nu 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You have 150% chance

This isn’t exactly the best math either.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Yes, it was a jab at the logic. Things can always get worse. Always. Change for the sake of change is a bad proposition. So now the people causing the problems before aren't in direct control. They have a go between patsy. Poised to push awful social oppression openly that they'd likely only thought about in wet dreams. And a large chunk of misguided populous supporting it. Because "it's different".

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Oof, yeah that's not a good choice.

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[-] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

What's the previous case study?

[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 32 points 11 months ago

This is a good one: https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project

The book is called, "A Libertarian Walks into a Bear."

[-] rambaroo@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

Look up Kansas Ave Oklahoma. It got so bad for them they had to cut school to 4 days per week and that was before the pandemic.

[-] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 months ago

Lol what policies? Everyone for themselves?

[-] Subverb@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Who is John Galt? Looks like we're about to find out.

[-] kromem@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It's the key ideological problem with the book. Rand was right that people do not inherently owe anyone else the fruits of their labor, but wrong about who was holding the world on their shoulders. It wasn't the handful of elite, but the masses without whom the elite would be living in caves and running from bears.

Who is John Galt? We the people are.

And yes, throughout history pretty much every authoritarian regime ultimately collapses or sends their country back decades in progress by not knowing that lesson.

Yet it never seems to actually be learned.

[-] hpca01@programming.dev 2 points 11 months ago

They'll come out of the woods and start claiming he wasn't a true libertarian.

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[-] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 115 points 11 months ago

From everything I've heard about the election in Argentina, it was the meeting of "Anything is better than this" and "it can always get worse." The former won, and proved the latter correct.

[-] MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works 14 points 11 months ago

Argentina needs shock therapy to realize milei is a dumbass

[-] loutr@sh.itjust.works 9 points 11 months ago

That's what I thought about the US and Trump, yet here we are...

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

We had the same in the UK with Brexit and Boris. We assumed that because everything is shit, backing people looking to do drastic changes that experts agreed was horrific was worth it. It wasn't, and now people are even poorer...

[-] JustMy2c@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Kirchner and croneys did soooooo much damage and noone spoke up except milei

Even if he is a moronic religious extremist, he's still RIGHT about many things.

And the people just wanna get rid of NARCO DICTADORS OF THE LEFT KIND.

All in all, extremism isn't good. It leads to dictators collaboration with drug lords and ruzzia/china

[-] JustMy2c@lemm.ee 7 points 11 months ago

No, the current policies are just getting reality and practice closer together.

IRL their money was ALREADY devalued soooooo much, he didn't do anything to change that, just adjusted it to reality.

Subsidies on imported oil is CRAZY for a bankrupt country. YOU GUYS HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE DECADES OF 100% OR MORE INFLATION PER YEAR.

[-] Maruki_Hurakami@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Perfect summary

[-] qevlarr@lemmy.world 38 points 11 months ago

Fuck around and find out. I'm so sorry for everyone who was duped by libertarians pretending they will do anything for regular people and not just the wealthy shareholders, everyone who was held back by economic sanctions in a war against 'muh socialism', and all those who saw the obvious coming but were dragged into it by the other rubes. This is going to suck. I hope the protests will work

[-] Dio@lemy.lol 34 points 11 months ago

He's only going to crush harder the more they resist.

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago

Oh joy. Skyrocketing rent combined with plummeting wages.

This isn't going to destroy their economy at all...

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That’s a right wing populist figure for you.

[-] intelshill@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago

Can this guy step down yet?

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[-] JustMy2c@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

Protests of FREE LOADING PROFITEERS, yeah.

[-] flathead@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

They are chanting against the IMF... why?, I thought....

oh...

BUENOS AIRES, Dec 9 (Reuters) - A U.S. delegation gave its support to Argentine President-elect Javier Milei over talks with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and developing its lithium sector during a meeting in Buenos Aires on Saturday, a White House official told Reuters.

Juan Gonzalez, adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden and the National Security Council's Western Hemisphere senior director, said the talks, a day ahead of Milei's inauguration, were "very positive" and focused on the country's embattled economy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-offers-argentinas-milei-support-imf-lithium-white-house-adviser-2023-12-10/

Ah yes! a moment of clarity. Carry on, then. As usual.

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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023

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