chat

So, unlimited PTO is actually a financial hack. There are laws on the books that say if you earn your PTO via accrual, then it's legally compensation and if you leave without taking your PTO the company is required to pay you for those hours. So unlimited PTO allows them to say that PTO is not part of compensation and they don't have to pay you for any accrued vacation time you didn't take because there is no accrued vacation time.

In practice, it just means that you have to meet whatever expectations your boss puts on you, including if those are expectations are to not take PTO when you want, and if you take it anyway you'll end up getting canned for "insubordination"

It's the illusion of freedom. In reality, unlimited PTO usage is policed crabs in a bucket style - you get pressured to not use it by your bosses and colleagues.

Unlimited PTO*

*pending pre-approval by HR and final approval by management. Must be submitted before January 4th each calendar year

I have had unlimited PTO. Basically if you took less than 3 weeks you were asked to take more, and if you took more than 5 weeks you were asked to take less.

So it's 4 weeks vacation but it's called unlimited. I guess.

Of course it's horseshit, there are always unwritten rules about how much you're actually supposed to take and it's almost always less or equal than what people with well defined PTO limits have.

I used to work somewhere with "unlimited" and now my current job does a standard accrual system. Unlimited is a scam 100%. It makes it easier for requests to be denied, and you will absolutely be judged for using it too often (how much is too often? good question!). That added pressure means you'd typically end up taking off far fewer days than you would with accrued PTO, and that's entirely by design.

As someone else mentioned too, it's also a way for companies to get away with not having to pay out unused PTO days when they let someone go. It's grimy as fuck.

Yes they use it to target those for layoffs (turnover) They don't have to pay out accrued PTO at the end of employment because there is nothing to accrue. Companies that have this unlimited system end up with employees actually taking less days off (i wonder why if not fear of being targeted).

Yeah I'm gonna have to take the next 24 years off, pto please, going on a long journey.

Its a scam to pressure you into taking less holiday

What if it was unlimited pho and you could eat your heart's content of wodnerful noodles in broth

It's generally a scam, yeah. That's why it's illegal in some places. It CAN be a really nice benefit, if your employer genuinely values their employees, but we all know how likely that is.

It's like you say, you CAN take as much as you want, but anyone with a brain is gonna be afraid of taking too much, and being singled out as an "underperformer". Plus, most people won't make the effort to track how much they use, if they're not forced to. So generally, people end up taking less than they would if there was just a firm limit.

Does this exist in any place where you actually have protection from being arbitrarily laid off?

I think it depends, but I have seen people accrue negative PTO through my job that requires me to look at over 200 people's stuff like that.

For those places it's a way to put workers into debt really and deny paying out after a lay off.

It's basically an honor system. The employer is expecting you not to abuse it, but it you don't abuse it you do get to take more PTO than most other jobs, if you do abuse it the employer will find some grounds to reprimand you for it.

Source: my sister is a pretty successful engineer and she's had jobs with unlimited PTO, and yeah you can take pretty long vacations at random but there is an expectation you'll schedule it in a way that doesn't disrupt operations.

Depends on the country you're in

It is a scam when people don't use it but I like starting a job and being able to take PTO immediately instead of waiting 2 months for a full day. And I also like taking off whenever without checking if I can.

I worked at a company that accrued PTO and only paid it back if you gave a 6 week notice when quitting. We only found out after someone working there 15 years got $0 back after giving 4 week notice (think the company followed the standard 2 week).

So you're not a more noble worker if you never take PTO, the moral is always take it even when you don't need it. At least once a month or 1 full week per quarter.

i've had unlimited pto in the last 5 jobs i've had. i take probably 2 weeks or so just like anyone else. it's an easy way for the company to not have to 'accrue' the time off and then pay it out when they lay you off.

most people take about the same amount of time off as they would with regular pto, but you don't have to think about it and worry if you take 1 day here and there that you only have x days left when you want to ACTUALLY go on a vacation

Two slightly different outcomes at my last "unlimited pto" workplace was like:

1. Lady right before my time took unlimited PTO off for some medical stuff. Extended it when it turned out to be serious. Was able to get paid while out. Retired after like 2 months out. Unfortunately I think it was cancer so I think she passed. (this was like 3 years ago, I think we were in 1 or 2 calls at the same time. And this was tail-end of covid. So I didn't know her or keep up with it much.) But at least was able to get time off and paid for it without question.

2. I decided that I was done it + other reasons, so I started "quiet quitting". They finally caught on after like 3 months of me half assing my work. I probably could have asked for time off but really did not want to push it and them decide to sue me for "stealing" time off or some shit. So I just walked out one day basically. I almost certain made up with 'unofficial' PTO but probably also should have been owed more.

It sucked because it was completely up to you to decided how much time off you should ask for. Like they said they would allocate you an appropriate number of stories (aka hours in software dev). But really the planning didn't matter. It really screwed me up because it meant that if my ADHD and depression having ass mis-estimated it, it really set up a disconnect between me and my boss. I could have handled it (and did for like 3 years) but decided I didn't want to get one more task from a mil-industrial company that suddenly was in our roster.

Their system was definitely "good" because if you kept up on appearances (did all your assigned tasks + 10%), you could pretty easily take off like a month in summer + 3-4 weeks around xmas (virtually everyone did so no one cared if you were out too). I imagine ANYONE really struggling to keep up would have been screwed out of so much time off.