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Who was the better defense? Argentina’s goalie, Or VAR?
Their goalie put in work no doubt, but VAR was there to back him up. They got that goal during main time, but thanks to VAR (Video Assistant Referee) they determined the scoring player was off sides by 1” (not an exaggeration).
Okay the offside thing they did during like every fucking match. Var is fucking annoying. I have more of a problem with the other goal wich i still dont know to this moment why they took back.
It wasn't the goal itself. In the interaction before the goal, before the ball gets to them, Spain steps on Argentina's foot.
I'm not an expert on the rules but it seemed like stepping on feet is a valid reason to call the play dead
I didnt see that. In the broadcast i watched they said it was possibly one of the players kicking the golie. But that would make sense. Idk the rules of football seem so fucking unbalanced. You can tackle the shit outta someone as long as you touch the ball. But if you so much as look at someones foot the wrong way its a penalty. Same with tackling, when i used to play football when i was much younger, tackling with one shoulder was allowed. Problem is its subjective where the line between tackling and attacking a player is, and if you lightly tackle someone they can just throw themselves and pretend you attacked them and sometimes it will work. Its just so inconsistent, its so annoying. Thats why i dont usually watch football just for the world cup and the euros. Sorry for the rant lol
I did see an angle in the BBC coverage either after the game had finished or in the break before extra time where it did indeed look like a foot got stepped on, but the commentators said that even then, it shouldn't have been a foul as it was clearly accidental and the ball clearly was touched. If Argentina were held to the same standards, they'd have been down to two men by half time.
Exactly
They never went back to it, never showed the actual fault. The Spanish commentators quickly realized that the goal was simply stolen and just said "looks like the referee made a serious mistake". I think they didn't want to say anything else because it's not their place to attack a referee directly like that. But it was clear, it was stolen.
here's a still frame of Spain's foot on top of Argentina's.
Spain won and is the better team, so we don't need to get all worked up about a goal being called back. 2-0 or 1-0, Spain won. Did Argentina overly flop for this? Yeah I've never flown into the air crying like that from having my foot stepped on. But also, did he get his foot stepped on? Yes. Is that against the rules? Yes. Was this a valid call to make? Yes.
Biases go both ways, Spanish coverage is naturally going to want this to count. Argentine coverage is naturally going to highlight other plays they disagree on the commentating on. All of the Spanish clips I've seen conveniently start AFTER the foot stepping. The play continued for long enough that it was easy to miss (especially if you didn't go back far enough)
This was a legitimate call. If anything, the bigger referee mistakes were in NOT calling other issues throughout the game.
Interesting. Does every country control their own feed? I thought it was FIFA that was controlling the cameras and each country only had the commentators. I think it would make more sense. So I think everyone was confused about what the referee called.
But you're right. Spain won, the rest is not that important.
The cropping I was referring to was on tiktok and threads and what not. "wheres the foul?!" posts where the clip starts after the foul.
While the game was live, it was shown in a replay and I kept saying "I still don't see it" because I wasn't sure where to look or when. It was after the game I saw a clip with the foot highlighted before I saw it.
It's a frustrating call, but a valid call.
I think larger broadcasters can control it somewhat. Idk how it works. But for me(watching from hungary) it was probably the official which did not show it in the replay, they showed a completely different thing about the golie.
When Spain finally scored, all the 7-10 year olds at our watch party were in shambles. They love Messi. Multiple kids cried
Better to get it over with at an early age
They were probably also trying to get to a penalty shootout because they would have a better chance without the suffocating defense of Spain.
Definitely. I don’t think Argentina lost a single penalty shootout this Cup.
They didn't. But they also didn't have one.
But didn't messi miss two penalties in regular time?
I thought the most that VAR could do was make a recommendation and it was up to the ref on the field to make the final call?
I found that offside decision questionable even when they tried to justify it with VAR. The way they drew the line was a bit... odd to say the least. All through the World Cup they kept mentioning players could be up to 10cm (~4") beyond the defensive player for it to be called offside, yet when it's for Argentina apparently being offside by a bee's dick is all that's needed.
Thankfully Spain still came out as the better team without any trademark Argentine "luck" altering the outcome.
I think this rigging was intentional so people get excited for the last match to get their revenge.
Which makes them more money.
They rigged it for Argentina because Messi was supposed to get that win as a feather in his cap to end his career.
That explains why he looked like a lost puppy in the end.
And it was all worth it for the photo of messi crying on the scoreboard
Football is like wrestling now.
Basically everything is wrestling now (with gambling top)
You can be a little offsides, if the ref doesn't notice.
But for real, VAR needs to go. It’s letting FIFA over scrutinize every single outcome they don’t like and there’s been a number of controversial VAR calls this cup.
Not claiming VAR is perfect or that FIFA isn't full of shit weasels, but isn't having more cameras (in professional sports games) just objectively better? The refs on the field are still extremely important, but they can't be omnipotent, so if necessary then why deny them access to dozens of different angles to confirm what really happened at any given time?
I mean yes it’s a tool, but it does come down to how the tool is used and in this cup, it’s been abused.
Egypt and Norway lost due to controversial VAR calls annulling goals.
It’s been used to push favorites.
And despite microchips in balls, and VAR, they still have shit calls like ignoring that the ball hit a camera wire in the Norway vs England match which should have been a dead ball.
Like I said, I agree that they're not perfect yet (and probably never will be, but that's a whole other matter). But I still don't think you should throw out the baby with the bath water when they can provide a great benefit for the actual refs on the field who simply can't be everywhere at once. I greatly appreciate you providing some links/examples though where most people (not necessarily in this thread but across the internet) simply rely on the age-old "just trust me bro". At the end of the day, I still think more cameras are an overall benefit, it's just a matter of working out how to better integrate them, and by providing examples of how they're misused we can better figure that out, so thank you 👍
Back during the Cold War, the Stasi and KGB had a strategy. You observe everything and log everything.
When someone you like breaks the rules, you see it, and you ignore it. When someone you don't like breaks the rules, you see it and you bring the hammer down.
There is no person and no sporting event that doesn't ever break a rule. But if you start selectively using those rules to punish one side and ignore the other, then you're just discriminating with cameras. You're not judging fairly anymore.
Like I said, I don't think they're being used perfectly, no. And I think you're right that they can indeed be used in a negative/unfair way. But I do still believe that having the multi-cam option is a good thing for a professional sporting event. I don't know the exact rules on how they're used in FIFA (so feel free to call me out here), but if I had to guess, I think it's similar to the use of the review box in American Football: the refs on the field make a call, if it's disputed or if they need more info then they go to the cameras, but ultimately the human beings on the field have the final say. Obviously I didn't watch every World Cup match, but I don't recall ever seeing a moment where the VAR stopped play and made a call on its own that every ref on the field had missed. Sports commentators might have seen/talked about something like that, saying that the refs SHOULD have picked up on something, but at the end of the day it's still humans making the initial calls and the cameras are just there to provide evidence.
I'm not a football hooligan or whatever the preferred term is, but IMO there's nothing wrong with good humans making the occasional mistake. Use video for verifying red cards when someone's pretending they've just been stabbed, but for stuff the human on the field should be expected to see, a little disagreeable calls because they're human feels better than disagreeable calls because the computer said they were 1 inch offsides.
Sadly not everyone agrees with you on that one (though I'm mostly on your side here). I've seen plenty of people argue 'Oh the refs should've seen that' despite being all the way across the field or 'Oh the judges really should know what the cards do' in a TCG with literally tens of thousands of cards in print, or 'the ump should have called that a strike, look it's catching the corner' as if they don't realize that the graphics they see on TV are not actually visible above the plate, or other similarly-ludicrous takes. Honestly it's a little scary how infallible the 'deciders' are meant to be in these situations and I believe that giving them as many tools as they can reasonably use is an overall positive thing (as long as the humans are still the ones making the final decision, I feel like I should point that out). Though yeah, I agree that that one particular offsides call you're referring to was egregious and the humans in charge should've stepped in and ruled it fair; like I said at the beginning, they're not perfect yet (and probably never will be, but that's a whole other matter)
The problem the becomes are the bad or missed calls because they are human, or because the fix is in? That same worry happens with VAR. But it’s reviewable and so bad calls are more easily noticed, and identifying trends is easier.
Yeah the VAR at least makes it a bit harder for the FIFA to make Argentina win.
Yeah, no, the var is bullshit . You have some damn tolerance, especially for the offside crap? Being offside by 1"? Really? A guy running full sprint to catch a ball. Like yeah, I get it if it was a full stride ahead.
3 finals in the last 4 WCs and the best argument is "is rigged"
Yeah, and FIFA who 'rigged' it for them, allowed: