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[-] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 106 points 10 months ago

No, tell them how it is. The economy IS booming. That fact just doesn't have anything to do with the average Joe. Teach them 'the economy' isn't on their side.

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[-] porksoda@lemmy.world 87 points 10 months ago

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the 11 million losing medicaid is due to red states choosing to "unwind" it. It's not really an economy thing so much as a deliberate asshole thing.

Everything else is spot on though.

[-] PorradaVFR@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Child poverty too….it was way down with recovery funding from the pandemic that conservatives gleefully killed.

[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Right about the medicaid. The child poverty is similar (Democrats expanded Child Tax Credit, Republicans refused to extend it. Presumably because people like OP would make posts like this to complain about Democrats. It's brutally cynical but effective.)

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

Republicans have also been blocking an increase in the minimum wage and attempts to eliminate student debt.

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[-] Facebones@reddthat.com 56 points 10 months ago

"The Economy" = The Stock Market. Nothing else, no other metric.

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[-] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 55 points 10 months ago
[-] PugJesus@kbin.social 14 points 10 months ago

Ah, the national razor.

[-] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

It's fun to build those in Minecraft.

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[-] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 53 points 10 months ago

I've always thought that the only meaningful measure of overall economy is real median wage. Don't talk to me about GDP or the frankly insulting per capita GDP. I can't spend money that's being hoarded by price-gouging industrialists and tech-bros.

[-] PugJesus@kbin.social 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

GDP gives an idea of how much value is being produced by the economy, which can help judge what kind of further pressure should be put on price-gouging industrialists and tech-bros.

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[-] Lauchs@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago

Didn't the child poverty rate jump because so many had just been lifted out of it because of the expanded child tax credit? And similarly with medicaid, wasn't that because of the expanded coverage due to covid? (In other words Democrats did good things but now don't have enough seats in the Senate/Congress to keep those temporary measures permanent?)

Just seem like weird choices. "We fixed these things, Republicans broke them, the economy must be nonsense!"

[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 34 points 10 months ago

People aren't lying about their struggles or material needs not being met. Then you add the housing issues on top this. It is crazy people are still pushing forward at all.

[-] Fleamo@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The problem is people are talking past each other. People prioritize different metrics and they don't all move the same direction or for the same reasons.

GDP is increasing, unemployment is low, child poverty is back up after a temporary decrease, homelessness is increasing, people reporting as "paycheck to paycheck" is down since 2019 but clearly OP thinks the overall level is still too high. Those are all reasonable things to look at, but they have to be looked at in totality. You can't just cherry pick some factoids and indignantly declare "don't TELL me you disagree with me"

[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 16 points 10 months ago

Some measures are a lot better than others.

GDP is only designed to measure the size of an economy, but how well it's serving the people who participate in it. Unemployment tells you only how many people have a "job", but it tells you nothing about whether thirst jobs pay a liveable wage or how many people are working multiple jobs to get by.

Other measures, like homelessness and child poverty, are direct measures of his of how many people are getting completely fucked by the economy.

When combining measures, I think it makes most sense to just completely ignore metrics like GDP in favor of direct measures of well-being. No matter how high the GDP is, homeless people's lives suck. No matter how low unemployment is, poor kids are still being set up for failure later in life. People living paycheck to paycheck can't use a soaring S&P 500 to pay for a medical emergency.

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[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

GDP is increasing due to inflation and speculation.

Unemployment is low because you aren't counting the anyone who is unemployed. The workforce participation rate is hovering around the same numbers as we had in the early 1970s when women entered the workforce in large numbers. Adding this with the gig jobs and the real numbers would be even worse.

Meanwhile housing, education, medical, insurance, food, consumer goods, and any service you can name has increased in a rate above inflation since 2020. The ratio of CEO-to-worker pay has increased as well. Everyone but the tinest fraction of the population has seen a significant hit in their quality-of-life. All the while dealing with the fallout from the virus. Plus all forms of debt have gone up.

The only good numbers are those of the stock market. Which really means very little. With interest rates so high and everyone shut out of smaller investments (you aren't going to invest in a starter home when it is costs 900k USD) of course share prices will go up. Now who benefits from this? The dividends are basically the same, the risk is basically the same, the only thing that went up is the share price. Funneling money to the people who had more money in the past. Present money taken out of the middle class to fund old money.

So there it is. The steaming garbage heap of our economy looked in total just as you requested.

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[-] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Oh it's booming. It's just not booming for you.

As George Carlin said: "it's a big club and you ain't in it!"

[-] littlebluespark@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago
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[-] dog_@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago
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[-] derf82@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago

I’m an avid planet money podcast listener, but a recent episode pissed me off so much. They were asking why consumer sentiment is so bad when all the economic news was good. It’s like they don’t pay attention to how most leading economic indicators are nothing more than a barometer of how rich people are doing. They expect us to be happy that inflation has slowed, even though prices are still high and it took high interest rates to do it (something that punishes poor borrowers but rewards rich investors). They expect us to be happy unemployment is low when jobs pay horribly.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

"You will own nothing, and be happy."

-WEF ç 2020

Fuck that bullshit.

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[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm very disappointed that nobody in the media bothers with follow up questions.

"The economy is booming!"

"For who?" For Joe 'I own a yacht' Manchin? Yeah, I'm sure it is.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-manchin-healthcare-expansion-yacht-b1931509.html

This goes back decades now with politicians on both the right and left claiming to support "middle class tax cuts" and nobody asks "how do you define 'middle class'?"

https://www.newsweek.com/tax-cuts-republicans-middle-class-trump-701094

"House Republicans issued a fact sheet about their new tax cut plan that referred to Americans earning $450,000 a year as "low- and middle-income"—even though that income level would put those taxpayers in the top 0.5 percent of all individual Americans.

The median household income in the United States is $59,039, after all."

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[-] HelixDab2@lemm.ee 24 points 10 months ago

Okay, first:

People got 'thrown off' Medicaid because it was temporarily expanded under the pandemic, and lots of the people that qualified under the expansion no longer qualify now that it's expired. Yeah, I'm in favor of Medicaid for all--or Medicare, I can't keep them straight--but this is disingenuous.

Second, 45M people in 1.8T student loan debt is a problem, sure, but who keeps blocking forgiving that debt? If you think that not voting for the guy that did everything in his power to cancel that debt is going to fix that problem, well, you probably shouldn't have gone to higher ed. in the first place, because it didn't help your critical thinking skills.

Is the economy we have now--under a Democratic president, with a Democratic Senate and a very slim Republican majority in the House--better or worse than it would be under a Republican (Trump) president, Republican Senate, and Republican House? Do you really think that all of the things listed in this short, misleading blurb would be fixed if Biden loses the election? Do you think that your protest vote for a Green or Dem Soc candidate is going to improve anything, given that we don't have ranked-choice voting in national elections?

[-] spader312@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago

I really hate hearing people who say they're not going to vote for Biden because for whatever reason without realizing that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump or any other Republican who will work against everything that will actually help people. Which is better?

Not only are you letting the other side win but the only way to get representation is to vote, if you don't vote why would any candidate want to do anything for you? You're no value for them.

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[-] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

That has absolutely nothing to do with the economy booming -that has to do with you electing legislators to enact appropriate legislation. That's not a failure of the economy, that's a failure of the voters.

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[-] dpkonofa@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

What’s the point of this statement? Both groups of things can be true. The economy of the US, as a whole, can be booming while simultaneously having those other things be true too. The economy isn’t a measure of how individuals are doing. It’s a measure of how well the bullshit of capitalism is working. Seems to be working as intended…

[-] jettrscga@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

You answered your own question. The point was to explain exactly what you also chose to explain.

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[-] SonnyVabitch@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Also, when your business plan relies on the government giving food stamps to your workers, you don't have a viable business plan.

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[-] dis_honestfamiliar@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Don't spit on my cupcake and tell me it's frosting.

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[-] Mandy@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago

They are right, it is booming, just not for us.

Thats a fact most people should learn, most systems, but esepcially the economy, aint working for you and me.

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[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 11 points 10 months ago

It is, though. Wealth and power are concentrating at the top of megacorporations and billionaires and bringing in record profits, just as they're supposed to under capitalism.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's not by chance that in big countries official economic numbers are listed for the country as whole (independently of the number of people) or at best using the arithmetic average for per-capita numbers rather than the mode.

Countrywide numbers sound great until you merelly divide it by the number of people (i.e. the average, which still has problems) were for example the US falls from #1 in wealth to #15 in wealth per person.

Further, it's way too common for governing politicians in countries with strong population growth to only talk about total economic numbers, because total country GDP will grow simply from adding more working adults (due to immigration or higher birth rates) even if it's actually falling per-capita (if, for example, the working adults added have lower productivity) hence the economic position of most people is getting worse.

As for arithmetic averages, they suffer from not really representing the experience of most people when there is high inequality. For example, if there are 10 people, 1 with 10 chickens and 9 with zero chickens, that average tells us each has 1 chicken whilst in reality most people's chicken-ownership experience is of having non chickens. The mode would tell it's zero chickens because that what most individuals have.

And don't get me started on the actual ways to rig official economic figures (such as understating Official Inflation, which because of how it's produced results in a higher Official GDP number)

For at least 2 decades now, Official Economic Figures have been complete total bollocks, and you should be especially suspicious of the figures quoted by government politicians as (as I explained above) they're generally cherry-picking and presenting figures which bare little resemblance to what's happenning for most people.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I'm guessing since gas prices are down they have to talk about real economic strife.

[-] gogogadgetfork@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

The stock market is a meat grinder

[-] PP_BOY_@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Okay but it's an election year so if we tell you it's booming enough, some of your idiots will think it's true

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this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
1298 points (96.1% liked)

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