this post was submitted on 19 May 2026
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[–] cowboydan@quokk.au 169 points 5 days ago (5 children)
[–] Triumph@fedia.io 65 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 172 points 5 days ago (6 children)

For the lazy who don't want to look it up

[–] WesternInfidels@feddit.online 75 points 5 days ago (9 children)

It feels so out of the blue, so unnecessary. Like the writer had been bored. It's difficult to imagine that this didn't jolt readers out of the story, even at the time.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 48 points 4 days ago (7 children)

Languages change. Moron, idiot and imbecile used to be medical terms. Gay used to simply mean happy and excited. A fag used to be a term for a cigarette.

I really doubt it would have appeared in a mainstream children's book if it were seen as at all offensive.

Words like "bugger" and "damn" used to be extremely offensive curses. Now they're often used as very mild expressions of annoyance to avoid using the serious ones.

[–] FishFace@piefed.social 31 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Fag still is a term for a cigarette...

[–] starik@lemmy.zip 15 points 4 days ago

Yeah, but only in old-timey countries, like England.

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[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Buggery used to be a crime, now it's a gay way to spend an afternoon

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[–] DamienGramatacus@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago (6 children)

Weren't idiot, moron and imbecile medical terms specifically used by white scientists to describe black people back in the good old eugenics days of the 1920's America? Language changes sure but it often has very racist roots.

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[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 7 points 4 days ago (16 children)

Exactly. I started reading The Fellowship of the Ring again, and it takes some getting used to that "queer" is used in a completely different way than nowadays.

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[–] Scrollone@feddit.it 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I mean... there's also a famous Agatha Christie's book that used to have the N-word in its title.

We're viewing these things with our modern eyes. But they didn't have this kind of sensibility those days. It probably felt like using any other word: normal.

I wonder if our grandchildren will feel the same way about something we say normally today.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 points 4 days ago

I mean it is from 1951. I've seen a lot worse by people who meant it.

It's 4 years before Emmett Till was murdered for example.

[–] zjti8eit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It was England, which never treated the n-world quite like those ungrateful colonials.

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[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 days ago

I doubt whether the vast majority of British readers would’ve been jolted by it - at the time of first publication. It was a word that had been in everyday parlance that got attached to dark “things” as a describer.

Here’s the thing though, go forward maybe 15 years again and you have the 1964 Smethwick constituency election. The winner had a, uhh, memorable slogan: “If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour.”

It’s worth noting that the “n*****s” in question were, most likely, gonna be from the Punjab. Go figure.

So, yeah, in less than a generation the word in question went from everyday speech with no overt pejorative meaning to the explicitly racist word it is today. It morphed.

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[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 27 points 5 days ago (7 children)

I genuinely don’t even understand what this means. Black people aren’t charcoal black.

[–] OwOarchist@pawb.social 37 points 5 days ago (9 children)

Black people aren’t charcoal black.

According to old-timey racists, they are.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 24 points 5 days ago

Exactly ... according to old-timey racists in the 1950s ... this is what they imagined about black people

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 31 points 5 days ago (1 children)

In the 1950s ... to average white people who might have never seen a black person before ... they would imagine this

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 16 points 4 days ago (13 children)

I can promise you that the vast majority of white Americans had seen a black person in the 1950s.

[–] f314@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago (6 children)

This is a British book, though

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

With the war and influx of American GIs in Britain, not to mention their colonies, I stand by my statement for Britain as well.

What helps in the case of the UK is a larger percentage of their population lives in cities than the US too. Just by the math living in urban areas you're just going to see more people and more people from outside your community will be come in.

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[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 23 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Remember the meme about the guy being immune to BnW filter?

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 4 days ago

If you have never actually seen a person with dark skin that's how you might imagine one. Or so I did when I was a kid, growing up in a bunghole village in the impenetrable forests up in northern europe where the darkest skin I'd seen was that greek girl (not very dark at all).

My friend is also charcoal black, so that's definitely a possibility too, human skin is amazing, it can be black-blueish, chocolate, white or red (me in the summer).

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[–] OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago

Came for the n-word, stayed for the story. Those silly trains.

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 21 points 5 days ago (2 children)

That author was definitely a Diesel.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 37 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Ah yes, "Thomas says the N-word by accident, while singing a rap song" episode, my favorite.

[–] getFrog@piefed.social 43 points 4 days ago (11 children)

Unironically a great example for explaining the difference between 0 and null

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[–] Return_of_Chippy@lemmy.world 23 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I'd imagine anyone involved with that decision is dead today. Granted thats around 75 years ago. Still a crazy stat though. Mr. Roger's TILL I DIE.

[–] 58008@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago

The intent and impact of the word was a lot different back then, certainly so outside of the US, but still, using a subset of humanity as a stand-in for an adjective is pretty grim stuff. Shows how little was thought of them. Like if the characters had instead become white from a flour mill explosion, it's unlikely they'd have been described as being "as white as scampering little crackers".

[–] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 11 points 5 days ago

And it _wasn’t _ either of the yank ones.

[–] turtlesareneat@piefed.ca 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There was that Barney coloring book that advocated for blood orgies but they caught it and recalled it fairly quick

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[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 days ago
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